Idea infringement? Page 2

Yeah, I did say this was a specific case and the key to it was "in confidence". It's a breach of contract because the idea had been communicated to others "in confidence" and there was sufficient originality and substance in the way the idea was presented for it to be deemed the idea of the actresses concerned. This was the non-internet 1970s and although there had been The Monkees, there hadn't been a girl group in that way.

Of course now we're in the 21st century and all round we are far more media savvy, with more access to media too. And actually if we have an original idea, I think it is far *more* likely that we will leave a paper and electronic paper trail rather do things on trust as these actors did. Although how easy it is prove an idea has been nicked with the rippling rings of the internet and the perennial defence of zeitgeist remains a knotty problem.

Word of mouth agreements outside of your nearest & dearest can be 'iffy'.

Hi Morrace,

Yes, but it was the 1970s when media was less widespread in people's lives and the ins and outs less-known. It was a different atmosphere and environment but these women weren't stupid. They were just at the start of the media explosion when the paths hadn't been trod numerous times as they have now. If someone knows their idea has commercial currency now I very much doubt whether they would enter into such a verbal agreement now and he or she would demand paperwork. And of course if the other side are reluctant to do so, there's nothing to stop the originator confirming conversations whether by letter or email.

Yes - and people are more cynical as well! Good advice, Goldnutmeg and thanks again!

We always seem hear about one side on the issue of copyright, that being the person who claims to have been ripped off. What about the other side? What protection do you have, when an over-protective person claims you've ripped them off?

Quote: Goldnutmeg @ May 8 2009, 2:38 PM BST

In England there is a copyright in ideas but it is hard to prove and must fulfil certain criteria. The precedent was for Rock Follies where crucially the idea was shown in confidence.

http://www.copyright.theft.btinternet.co.uk/rockfollies1.html

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You're being rather loose with terms here, methinks.

There is absolutely no copyright in an idea. Ever. Copyright exists in the expression and form of an idea, not in the idea itself. Thus whilst Jill Murphy has the copyright over her Worst Witch series, and JK Rowling has the copyright over her Harry Potter series, neither has the copyright over the "witches/wizards at school" idea; providing you do not substantially copy either Jill Murphy or Rowling (or any of the other writers who've written on a similar theme) there is nothing to stop you writing a book about people at a school for witches/wizards.

The Rock Follies case you mention (Fraser v Thames Television) is concerned with the law of confidence, which isn't technically even a type of Intellectual Property right, although it can achieve similar results. Instead, it is an equitable concept to prevent unconscionable behaviour, and as stated, there are strict criteria to fulfill for you to succeed in a claim like this.

And to be fair, Goldnutmeg has stressed the importance of the "in confidence" bit in all subsequent posts - but I still regard it as misleading to describe it as "copyright in ideas".

Quote: NoggetFred @ May 10 2009, 8:58 AM BST

We always seem hear about one side on the issue of copyright, that being the person who claims to have been ripped off. What about the other side? What protection do you have, when an over-protective person claims you've ripped them off?

View original

If a person claims you've ripped them off, then you (i) check very carefully to see if they have a case (there's not much protection if you've actually breached their copyright, unless you count the fact that it's so expensive to bring a claim very few people actually do). If you haven't, if what they're claiming is serious enough, you may have a claim under the law of defamation (i.e. libel/slander).

Quote: SlagA @ May 1 2009, 10:18 AM BST

Ideas are not copyrighted as far as I'm aware but there is a point at which 'borrow and mould' becomes outright steal. It depends on proving how identical the characters are, as I believe characters are copyright. As to plot and world similarities, does anyone know? I don't know but I suspect, for example, that people would not be able to write discworld novels without permission.

I believe intellectual copyright only exists to protect a company's ideas.

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Your suspicians are right, even if the discworld novel was just fan fiction not for profit it would be illegal but it's only with the advent of slash that novelists have bothered prosecuting, I think.

Although you'd be surprised at how many people try and sell their fan fiction online and are outraged when they are ceased and desisted, insisting that although they use the same characters it's a new story and that they are helping to promote the author's original work.

I've always been told that there is no copyright on ideas, where people get this notion that your own idea is legally yours and can be protected against theft, I do not know! It would be impossible to enforce such a law - every little joke would have to be registerd by the creator first, and then every kid in the playground who tells that joke, in whatever form, would be sent a bill for royalties - nuts! Not even the Americans, who legally protect everyyhing they can, would never be able to enforce such an insane law. Ideas get nicked, live with it, and don't tell others what they are before you've made your fame and fortune with it.

There are some insane things which get copyrighted. Large companies copyright certain colours, so that others can't try to imitate their style too closely. Also, I remember a case where a certain tree was copyrighted. It was a tree which yielded valuable medicinal compounds.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/4506551

http://tinyurl.com/disclosureofideas

Quote: ACUSmember @ May 12 2009, 8:14 PM GMT

You're being rather loose with terms here, methinks.

There is absolutely no copyright in an idea. Ever. Copyright exists in the expression and form of an idea, not in the idea itself. Thus whilst Jill Murphy has the copyright over her Worst Witch series, and JK Rowling has the copyright over her Harry Potter series, neither has the copyright over the "witches/wizards at school" idea; providing you do not substantially copy either Jill Murphy or Rowling (or any of the other writers who've written on a similar theme) there is nothing to stop you writing a book about people at a school for witches/wizards.

The Rock Follies case you mention (Fraser v Thames Television) is concerned with the law of confidence, which isn't technically even a type of Intellectual Property right, although it can achieve similar results. Instead, it is an equitable concept to prevent unconscionable behaviour, and as stated, there are strict criteria to fulfill for you to succeed in a claim like this.

And to be fair, Goldnutmeg has stressed the importance of the "in confidence" bit in all subsequent posts - but I still regard it as misleading to describe it as "copyright in ideas".

If a person claims you've ripped them off, then you (i) check very carefully to see if they have a case (there's not much protection if you've actually breached their copyright, unless you count the fact that it's so expensive to bring a claim very few people actually do). If you haven't, if what they're claiming is serious enough, you may have a claim under the law of defamation (i.e. libel/slander).

View original

http://www.jstor.org/pss/4506551

http://tinyurl.com/disclosureofideas

Quote: ACUSmember @ May 12 2009, 8:14 PM GMT

You're being rather loose with terms here, methinks.

There is absolutely no copyright in an idea. Ever. Copyright exists in the expression and form of an idea, not in the idea itself. Thus whilst Jill Murphy has the copyright over her Worst Witch series, and JK Rowling has the copyright over her Harry Potter series, neither has the copyright over the "witches/wizards at school" idea; providing you do not substantially copy either Jill Murphy or Rowling (or any of the other writers who've written on a similar theme) there is nothing to stop you writing a book about people at a school for witches/wizards.

The Rock Follies case you mention (Fraser v Thames Television) is concerned with the law of confidence, which isn't technically even a type of Intellectual Property right, although it can achieve similar results. Instead, it is an equitable concept to prevent unconscionable behaviour, and as stated, there are strict criteria to fulfill for you to succeed in a claim like this.

And to be fair, Goldnutmeg has stressed the importance of the "in confidence" bit in all subsequent posts - but I still regard it as misleading to describe it as "copyright in ideas".

If a person claims you've ripped them off, then you (i) check very carefully to see if they have a case (there's not much protection if you've actually breached their copyright, unless you count the fact that it's so expensive to bring a claim very few people actually do). If you haven't, if what they're claiming is serious enough, you may have a claim under the law of defamation (i.e. libel/slander).

View original