Do you understand the Parliamentary System?

Because Canadians don't.
So many Canadians are ranting and raving mad because we just had an election that saw the Conservatives take power of the house. It's only been a month since our last election and the minority parties (Liberals, NDP and Bloq) have formed a coalition agreement over the week to topple the Conservatives and instill themselves as the leaders. This has never happened in the history of our country and people are freaking..but it's completely legitimate under our system of governance.
As you all know being from a country with a parliamentary system we don't vote to elect a President we vote for those to represent our areas in a House of Commons who together decide who will lead the country thus voting in a Prime Minister (ala the Prime of the crop of Ministers). THUS this coalition is (in my opinion) a great example of why Parliamentary systems are good. It often forces sides to work together thus resulting in more of the population being represented (this coalition would make up 64% of the electorate vote).
I watch, read and listen to the news and the populace of Canada are still saying things like "this is undemocratic", "Canada voted for the Conservatives so he should be Prime Minister". I can understand disliking the parties involved or thinking they won't do a good job but these people are just down right wrong!
We have so little civil duties, the least they can do is understand the freaking system there voting in!!! WE DON'T VOTE FOR A PRIME MINISTER!!!!
This quote from Nelson Wiseman a political science professor at the University of Toronto sums it up well:

"The Conservatives are arguing it's undemocratic, but actually elections don't elect governments," said Wiseman. "They elect Parliaments. Parliaments make a government. Parliaments can break a government."

GAAAAHHHH Sorry I just had to vent somewhere I haven't been this frustrated with my Country in long long time.

Both our countries are similar in this respect, traditionally we haven't had coalitions I know that. But has your country ever done it? Or done it successfully?

I don't think that many people here appreciate that they're not (directly) electing a Prime Minister.

Quote: Aaron @ December 3 2008, 12:04 AM GMT

I don't think that many people here appreciate that they're not (directly) electing a Prime Minister.

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Yeah, I didn't either until I actually got to a voting age.

Exactly! And the people there talking to on the streets (that I've seen on the news all day) are adults! Adults in business suites with jobs you need to be smart to do and they don't understand the most basic aspects of our democracy.

I think politics should be taught in schools, compulsory.

Is it in Canada?

There is some compulsory politics now, but only very basic, and much like sex education, I believe it varies greatly between schools and regions.

I think that there should be a test you have to pass in order to get the right to vote.

It's also not really democratic to allow people not to vote, because they passively affect the votes of people who do vote, which is in itself undemocratic, and of course you can't subsequently avoid the imposition of a law or a tax or government stricture because you didn't vote for it, so the option to not be involved is only an illusion.

Let's scrap Parliament and just get the Queen back in charge. Much easier.

Quote: Seefacts @ December 3 2008, 12:13 AM GMT

I think politics should be taught in schools, compulsory.

Is it in Canada?

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There are some in high school but they are not compulsory unfortunately. I never took one during my time in high school.

Quote: Griff @ December 3 2008, 12:39 AM GMT

So yeah, politics is probably one of those subjects which would be good to teach in schools. But the old question always arises - what existing subject would you drop to make the time for it?

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Gym

Quote: Griff @ December 3 2008, 12:39 AM GMT

Also there's an argument that the point of education is to encourage kids to be interested and clued-up enough to find some things out for themselves. You can't cover everything that might be useful in life.

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Now that I'm watching TV and seeing that the majority of the country including the most educated within it don't understand even the most BASIC of our system is very scary to me. I too think it should be something to discover on your own but I also think the basics of how it works should be mandatory.

Quote: Aaron @ December 3 2008, 12:39 AM GMT

There is some compulsory politics now, but only very basic, and much like sex education, I believe it varies greatly between schools and regions.

I think that there should be a test you have to pass in order to get the right to vote.

View original

some times I think the same thing. Maybe people would be more apt to want to understand it instead of just throwing their vote behind whatever party had the most money to flood their brains with advertisements and more importantly UNDERSTAND THE SYSTEM WE USE!!!
I was recently reading some of the history of education and learned that the first educational systems were produced when the elites realized the masses would soon have the right to vote...and realized those masses were all uneducated. They feared the same upheaval in Paris so they built free schools like crazy! You think then that they would have included politics within the mandatory curriculum.
>_<

p.s. I breath a sigh a relief now knowing that not all Parliamentary using countries are as daft as my own.

Quote: Aaron @ December 3 2008, 1:48 AM GMT

Let's scrap Parliament and just get the Queen back in charge. Much easier.

View original

I should have seen that one coming

Quote: Curt @ December 3 2008, 12:01 AM GMT

Because Canadians don't.
So many Canadians are ranting and raving mad because we just had an election that saw the Conservatives take power of the house. It's only been a month since our last election and the minority parties (Liberals, NDP and Bloq) have formed a coalition agreement over the week to topple the Conservatives and instill themselves as the leaders. This has never happened in the history of our country and people are freaking..but it's completely legitimate under our system of governance.
As you all know being from a country with a parliamentary system we don't vote to elect a President we vote for those to represent our areas in a House of Commons who together decide who will lead the country thus voting in a Prime Minister (ala the Prime of the crop of Ministers). THUS this coalition is (in my opinion) a great example of why Parliamentary systems are good. It often forces sides to work together thus resulting in more of the population being represented (this coalition would make up 64% of the electorate vote).
I watch, read and listen to the news and the populace of Canada are still saying things like "this is undemocratic", "Canada voted for the Conservatives so he should be Prime Minister". I can understand disliking the parties involved or thinking they won't do a good job but these people are just down right wrong!
We have so little civil duties, the least they can do is understand the freaking system there voting in!!! WE DON'T VOTE FOR A PRIME MINISTER!!!!
This quote from Nelson Wiseman a political science professor at the University of Toronto sums it up well:

"The Conservatives are arguing it's undemocratic, but actually elections don't elect governments," said Wiseman. "They elect Parliaments. Parliaments make a government. Parliaments can break a government."

GAAAAHHHH Sorry I just had to vent somewhere I haven't been this frustrated with my Country in long long time.

Both our countries are similar in this respect, traditionally we haven't had coalitions I know that. But has your country ever done it? Or done it successfully?

View original

Well, we have (in this country) historically had a hung parliament and a coalition government...

really? That's interesting I didn't know your country had many. How did they work out?

Quote: Curt @ December 3 2008, 3:22 AM GMT

really? That's interesting I didn't know your country had many. How did they work out?

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Well, to be fair, not in many people's living memory has there been a hung parliament. And then only briefly. As for coalitions, they have usually been "unofficial" in order to gain majorities on voting. So, I'm not boasting about our system.

I don't know though - the collegiate system of the US is not/if any better - where you can elect a President who can then be potentially handcuffed in pursuing policy and funding by two Houses. At least in a parlimentary system the government can't make policy law until it's been through cross-party analysis, select committee, amendents et cetera.

In Britain you need a system, PR, that allows a party with a minority of votes to govern with a majority of representatives, unfortunately. There probably hasn't been a majority of the electorate vote for a single party since the two party days of Tory vs Whig, and now of course we have three major parties (cue Liberal Democrat jokes...)

Four in Scotland (cue Liberal Democrat and Conservative jokes...)

Most voters do not understand economics. Economics underpin and drive political agenda and policy-making. Economics is a cross-party "Sword of Damocles" which precludes radical change when political power shifts.
It equates to same shit, different bucket.

Point: Look after Number One. I'd rather channel my efforts into insulating myself against the global economic crisis than level ill-informed criticism at my country's electoral mechanism and outcomes.

Quote: Aaron @ December 3 2008, 1:48 AM GMT

Let's scrap Parliament and just get the Queen back in charge. Much easier.

View original

I totally agree with this. I still cling to the slim possibility that one day the Queen will just storm parliament and send Gordon Brown to the Tower to await beheading.