Quote: Nat Wicks @ June 20 2012, 2:19 PM BSTIt wasn't even the case that got people riled up, it was mainly your posting if I remember correctly.
No, it was a bunch of "maybe the dad was the molester and he killed the stranger to silence him and then forced his daughter to lie to the cops" make believe scenarios coming from people who seem to have wholeheartedly embraced the X-Files' motto of 'trust no one.'
I think everyone posted before the facts were known, but Dabutt you posted first.
Quote: DaButt @ June 20 2012, 2:29 PM BSTNo, it was a bunch of "maybe the dad was the molester and he killed the stranger to silence him and then forced his daughter to lie to the cops" make believe scenarios coming from people who seem to have wholeheartedly embraced the X-Files' motto of 'trust no one.'
In murder cases it's not uncommon for murderers who delusionally want to get away with it fitting up the victim.
Seriously its why the police are so cautious.
Women who make false charges of spousal abuse, faking burglaries the whole shmeer.
It's why the police are so cautious, especially when it looks obvious.
And the paedo defence, along with the gay panic defence are not uncommon.
Quote: DaButt @ June 20 2012, 2:29 PM BSTNo, it was a bunch of "maybe the dad was the molester and he killed the stranger to silence him and then forced his daughter to lie to the cops" make believe scenarios coming from people who seem to have wholeheartedly embraced the X-Files' motto of 'trust no one.'
I think two people said that, of the ten or so active participants. The rest of us seemed more astounded by your starting post, which felt very poor taste and overwilling to applaud someone's death, given the circumstances.
I'm not saying that you were wrong, it's just that your views do tend to get the backs up of us tame British folk.
Quote: sootyj @ June 20 2012, 2:29 PM BSTI think everyone posted before the facts were known, but Dabutt you posted first.
Yeah, and guess what: I was right.
I'm a cynical son of a bitch but I'm no so far gone that I doubt everything that I read, every decision made by a cop or every statement made by a witness. There was not a whiff of contradictory evidence in this case from Day One, so I had little reason to doubt what was initially reported. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...
Quote: sootyj @ June 20 2012, 2:32 PM BSTIn murder cases it's not uncommon for murderers who delusionally want to get away with it fitting up the victim.
And the paedo defence, along with the gay panic defence are not uncommon.
I think they are quite uncommon, indeed. So uncommon as to be a mere blip on the radar of actual murders and their investigations in this nation.
Quote: Nat Wicks @ June 20 2012, 2:32 PM BSTThe rest of us seemed more astounded by your starting post, which felt very poor taste and overwilling to applaud someone's death, given the circumstances.
I will always champion the right of the victim to defend him/herself against a violent criminal. As for 'given the circumstances,' in this case where a man was raping a 5-year-old girl, I'd have a hard time not high-fiving the father and spitting on the corpse.
Quote: Nat Wicks @ June 20 2012, 1:49 PM BSTThat's really sad. It's bad enough these hideous people prey on gullible grieving folk to get money, but to sexually exploit them is another thing altogether. If this is true then this is so utterly cruel and perverse he deserves some hefty punishment.
Bloody hell, you've taken all the fun out of it now!
Quote: DaButt @ June 20 2012, 2:29 PM BST'trust no one.'
Don't you embrace that same motto when it comes to the federal government and the president?
Quote: chipolata @ June 20 2012, 2:45 PM BSTDon't you embrace that same motto when it comes to the federal government and the president?
No, not at all.
Quote: DaButt @ June 20 2012, 2:43 PM BSTAs for 'given the circumstances,' in this case where a man was raping a 5-year-old girl, I'd have a hard time not high-fiving the father and spitting on the corpse.
If you don't realise I mean that the 'circumstances' was a dead person then that pretty much sums up the problem. If I was investigating it, and was thoroughly convinced by the evidence, then I probably would have agreed with the outcome wholeheartedly and not had much in the way of second thoughts.
It's like the people who watched and shared the hanging of Sadam. Any celebration of someone elses' death just sits the wrong way with me, regardless of the justifications or lack thereof.
Quote: DaButt @ June 20 2012, 2:43 PM BSTI think they are quite uncommon, indeed. So uncommon as to be a mere blip on the radar of actual murders and their investigations in this nation.
In the case of premeditated murder they're pretty much the norm.
But then premeditated murder is quite unusual
Quote: chipolata @ June 20 2012, 2:45 PM BSTBloody hell, you've taken all the fun out of it now!
Sorry I'd try it differently:
HAHAH, stupid f**king women, if they're that daft they deserved a good seeing to. It's just a shame they caught on before they were violently raped! Whooo!
Is that better? 
Quote: Nat Wicks @ June 20 2012, 2:50 PM BSTIt's like the people who watched and shared the hanging of Sadam. Any celebration of someone elses' death just sits the wrong way with me, regardless of the justifications or lack thereof.
I'm not going to complain about some Iraqis celebrating the death of a murderous tyrant and I'll admit that I opened a bottle of my favourite beer and toasted the SEALS the night they killed bin Laden. I suspect a lot of your fellow 'tame Englishmen' celebrated the news of Hitler's demise, too.
Quote: Nat Wicks @ June 20 2012, 2:50 PM BSTIf you don't realise I mean that the 'circumstances' was a dead person then that pretty much sums up the problem. If I was investigating it, and was thoroughly convinced by the evidence, then I probably would have agreed with the outcome wholeheartedly and not had much in the way of second thoughts.
It's like the people who watched and shared the hanging of Sadam. Any celebration of someone elses' death just sits the wrong way with me, regardless of the justifications or lack thereof.
Nat Wicks as a sunday evening itv detective would be aces.
Natural justice, or Wicks against the Wicked.
You could have a cat side kick.
Quote: DaButt @ June 20 2012, 2:53 PM BSTI'm not going to complain about some Iraqis celebrating the death of a murderous tyrant and I'll admit that I opened a bottle of my favourite beer and toasted the SEALS the night they killed bin Laden. I suspect a lot of your fellow 'tame Englishmen' celebrated the news of Hitler's demise, too.
Yes, the masses 70 years ago probably did. It doesn't make it right. I can just never get over the thought that it's bad taste to celebrate another's death. But that's just me. I'm certainly not in the majority.
Quote: sootyj @ June 20 2012, 2:53 PM BSTNat Wicks as a sunday evening itv detective would be aces.
Natural justice, or Wicks against the Wicked.
You could have a cat side kick.
Damn, that would be awesome. I'd be busting chops, but in a fair and socially inclusive manner.
And murdering someone because you "thought they were a paedo" has become the siren call of every, thuggish, mindless thrill killer in the UK.
Perhaps catching a rapist in the act is the ultimate justifiable homicide.
Problem is in the UK its spread to someone who looked up something dodgy on line once, the lonely, eccentric and vulnerable. Vigilante justice is like playing the lottery.
Really not worth it for the few times it pays out.
Quote: sootyj @ June 20 2012, 2:59 PM BSTProblem is in the UK its spread to someone who looked up something dodgy on line once, the lonely, eccentric and vulnerable. Vigilante justice is like playing the lottery.
It is not just the vigilantes. Based on the experience of a friend of mine (no, really, a friend) the police are not much more discriminating when it comes to victimising people in those circumstances.
Years ago there was a rather wonderful TV show called the Biederbecke Affair concerning a young policeman who had developed the theory that anyone whose behaviour was not normal must be guilty of something if only you dug deep enough. It turned out to be a rather prophetic insight into the future of policing, wonderfully assisted by Blair's anti-terrorism laws, which enable the police to break into your home and seize your computer, and anything else that takes their fancy, on the slightest suspicion.
Quote: sootyj @ June 20 2012, 2:59 PM BSTAnd murdering someone because you "thought they were a paedo" has become the siren call of every, thuggish, mindless thrill killer in the UK.
That isn't anywhere close to the truth in this country and I remain unconvinced that it's commonplace in the UK. Proof?