Quote: Nat Wicks @ August 7 2011, 11:09 PM BSTHe hasn't. Which is why Marc says 'seem' instead of making a definitive statement.
Nat .... you are hired! 
I read the news today oh boy! Page 435
Quote: sootyj @ August 7 2011, 11:12 PM BSTIt's more an idea that if a sufficently large number of citizens are willing to be armed and responsible. Then it creates an atmosphere that discorages violence by all but the most desperate.
And you know what it works.
Jesus wept. Public vigilante militias? Guns = deaths. No guns = no gun deaths.
Quote: Kenneth @ August 7 2011, 11:11 PM BSTThat's just being stupid.
Stastically a car is the 8th most popular murder weapon in the UK.
Fists and feet is in competition with knives for the number 1 slot.
But just because a car is a potential lethal weapon, doesn't mean sensible trained, people of sound mind can't drive one.
Quote: Kenneth @ August 7 2011, 11:26 PM BSTJesus wept. Public vigilante militias? Guns = deaths. No guns = no gun deaths.
A pipe dream.
Switzerland after 9.11 ordered all serving conscripts to carry bayonets on air flights. No one got stabbed.
Vigilante militia or responsible citizenry? Sorry but in the UK we have a plenty high murder rate with fire arms.
And with few exeptions they're unlicensed criminal firearms.
(and Derrick Bird inherited the guns from his dad and fiddled the licensing)
The idea that they will only face guns in the hands of a small number of armed police men emboldens criminals.
The idea that the absence of guns equal an absence of violence. Is a logical nonsence.
Quote: Kenneth @ August 7 2011, 11:26 PM BSTJesus wept. Public vigilante militias? Guns = deaths. No guns = no gun deaths.
Yup. Look at road rage. People drive around in cars feel empowered and do stupid things. Overtaking on blind bends because the car in front is only doing fifty miles an hour on a bendy country roads - a gun is not an equualiser in intelligence unfortunately, or inadequacy, never mind what Chartlton Heston and Mark Chapman might think. I'm with Ken - guns don't kill people bullets do.
Quote: sootyj @ August 7 2011, 11:32 PM BSTStastically a car is the 8th most popular murder weapon in the UK.
And if the UK legalised handguns, I imagine they would become the number one murder weapon.
Quote: Kenneth @ August 7 2011, 11:35 PM BSTAnd if the UK legalised handguns, I imagine they would become the number one murder weapon.
It probably already is isn't it? Or is it the knife. Or death by chocolate which I see still hasn't been outlawed?
Quote: sootyj @ August 7 2011, 11:32 PM BSTThe idea that the absence of guns equal an absence of violence. Is a logical nonsence.
I suggested that an absence of guns would mean there are no gun deaths (not an end to violence). Conversely, if you introduce more guns into society, you will have more gun deaths. Frankly, it worries me that anyone would think legalising handguns in the UK is a good thing.
Marc this is why countries that license firearms generally check people applying for licences more stringently than they do for drivers.
Just because you couldn't control your homicidal rages doesn't mean others can't.
Quote: Marc P @ August 7 2011, 11:37 PM BSTIt probably already is isn't it? Or is it the knife.
Knives (or sharp weapons in general), I think.
Are chav dogs considered a weapon yet?
[quote name="sootyj" post="796073" date="August 7 2011, 11:41 PM BST"
Just because you couldn't control your homicidal rages doesn't mean others can't.[/quote]
Why for two pins.....! It is only with you sootyJ!
Quote: Kenneth @ August 7 2011, 11:39 PM BSTI suggested that an absence of guns would mean there are no gun deaths (not an end to violence). Conversely, if you introduce more guns into society, you will have more gun deaths. Frankly, it worries me that anyone would think legalising handguns in the UK is a good thing.
Of course no guns equals no guncrime. But if you can't ban or control them all, then the only people who have guns are criminals or the police.
So yes if there was a magic wand that made all guns disapear I'd wave it.
I don't believe in fetishistic ownership of guns.
I simply accept that when the government shares the responsibility for violence with trusted citizens. It reduces all levels of violence.
And to be honestthat's a fact. Really it is.
Even Micheal Moore in Bowling for Columbine ended up concluding the US's murder rate was more to do with social inequality than gun ownership.
Quote: zooo @ August 7 2011, 11:45 PM BSTAre chav dogs considered a weapon yet?
Katie Price is a force for good not evil Zooo.
Hey Marc fancy a shag?
Quote: Marc P @ August 7 2011, 11:45 PM BST[quote name="sootyj" post="796073" date="August 7 2011, 11:41 PM BST"
Just because you couldn't control your homicidal rages doesn't mean others can't.
Why for two pints.....! It is only with you sootyJ?[/quote]
For 3 pints can I bring a friend?
Quote: zooo @ August 7 2011, 11:45 PM BSTAre chav dogs considered a weapon yet?
Not yet, but there's some cases going through where they have been blatantly used as murders in weapons.
Take guns from the crims and they'll find something else.
Quote: Marc P @ August 7 2011, 11:46 PM BSTevil Zooo.
When did this start?