I read the news today oh boy! Page 2,621

Quote: DaButt @ 18th July 2023, 6:28 PM

The expert advice that mandated wearing masks (any old bit of cloth would do, of course) while flying, but allowed them to be removed for 20 minutes while everyone ate and drank? The expert advice that said you needn't wear a mask if you were seated at a bar/restaurant, but insisted that you did so if you were standing?

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Indeed:

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 21st July 2021, 4:21 PM

So does the virus not spread when you're drinking then?

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Quote: Chris Hallam @ 18th July 2023, 5:57 PM

I dread to think how ... ... terrible death rates would have been had we not followed the expert advice.

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Much the same as Sweden I suspect. 2,325 deaths per million of population. As opposed to UK's 3,376 per million.

Quote: DaButt @ 18th July 2023, 6:28 PM

The expert advice that mandated wearing masks (any old bit of cloth would do, of course) while flying, but allowed them to be removed for 20 minutes while everyone ate and drank? The expert advice that said you needn't wear a mask if you were seated at a bar/restaurant, but insisted that you did so if you were standing? The expert advice that closed schools and made young children wear masks, even though they had approximately a 0% chance of dying from it? The expert advice from scientists who knowingly lied and attempted to cover up their concerns that the virus had been created in a lab?

I'd take that kind of expert advice with a healthy dose of skepticism.

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I don't know anything about the last bit. I'm not really into conspiracy theories.
The reasoning behind the closing of schools was to help stop the virus spreading not because children were especially vulnerable to it.
I don't recall ever hearing about most of the examples you give. It's worth remembering neither the US Trump or the UK Johnson administrations handled the crisis at all well.
Denmark had much higher death rates than all the other Nordic countries.
I still wouldn't have fancied seeing what would have happened if our governments had done nothing at all though.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 18th July 2023, 6:08 PM

Would you be glad you caught polio after you had the vaccine?
I too had vaccines and was very ill with covid twice after.
That was no vaccine.

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Sorry to hear that, in all honesty.

As far as I know I didn't get it/haven't yet had it, but I don't want it. I masked up everywhere and kept at least two metres away from people when talking to them, which annoyed a lot of people. Never had so much fun. And I even got a few laughs and a lot more strange looks doing a gag of accidentally covering my eyes with the mask and walking into things. Kept me amused for a good couple of years.

It's important to note that while the legal restrictions were tight, I saw many cases of them not being enforced and many more of them being deliberately flouted with impunity. Have met those with long covid and I really didn't want that, it causes permanent scarring to the lungs, sleep apnea, and a string of other nasty things. And if you were to give it to an elderly relative with bad or fatal consequences, how would you feel then? I get the damage done to the economy but preventing damage to your loved ones I think trumps it.

One of my lads, early 30's, strong as an ox and vacc'd, came down with what he described as 'killer man flu' for two days and then was as right as rain. A home test swab kit showed positive for Covid. I'd shared a car journey with him a couple of days before but nothing, I haven't even had my usual winter sniffle for a couple of years.

Remember queueing 2 metres apart across the windy supermarket car park, constantly shuffling forwards to where someone else had been standing seconds before? Then being told to open the windows at home to 'let the Covid out'? Does it stick round you in a sphere like the info advert or not?

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 18th July 2023, 8:52 PM

As far as I know I didn't get it/haven't yet had it, but I don't want it. I masked up everywhere and kept at least two metres away from people when talking to them, which annoyed a lot of people. Never had so much fun. And I even got a few laughs and a lot more strange looks doing a gag of accidentally covering my eyes with the mask and walking into things. Kept me amused for a good couple of years.

It's important to note that while the legal restrictions were tight, I saw many cases of them not being enforced and many more of them being deliberately flouted with impunity. Have met those with long covid and I really didn't want that, it causes permanent scarring to the lungs, sleep apnea, and a string of other nasty things. And if you were to give it to an elderly relative with bad or fatal consequences, how would you feel then? I get the damage done to the economy but preventing damage to your loved ones I think trumps it.

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That's just the point. As you have seen and proved - and as Sweden proved - locking families, schools and the economy down was of no benefit whatsoever. You could socially distance if you wished to, you could wear a mask if you wished to without increasing mental health problems, without endangering vulnerable children, without ruining businesses and without crashing the economy.

Of course we have since learned that even those who made the rules - both politicians and "experts" - didn't believe that it was necessary. But it was in their interests to prolong it as long as they could.

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 18th July 2023, 9:46 PM

But it was in their interests to prolong it as long as they could.

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Why?

Quote: Lazzard @ 18th July 2023, 10:42 PM

Why?

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Tin foil hats alert

The vaccines also contain chemicals that will kill off millions globally

Except the Jews

Hat stand , wibble wibble

I'm a little tea pot

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 18th July 2023, 9:46 PM

That's just the point. As you have seen and proved - and as Sweden proved - locking families, schools and the economy down was of no benefit whatsoever. You could socially distance if you wished to, you could wear a mask if you wished to without increasing mental health problems, without endangering vulnerable children, without ruining businesses and without crashing the economy.

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No, I think that's a very stretched version of reality, Billy. Imo there was no way you'd get the vast majority of people at least trying to comply with the social restrictions before the first vaccine was ready, without those legal constraints and the daily covid bulletins from Downing Street.

That the tossers broke their own rules doesn't take away from the fact that millions didn't, at least knowingly. It's the very thing that ended Johnson's reign. There can't be any scientific doubt that they greatly curbed the spread of the disease before it mutated to milder forms and the majority of adults were vaccinated.

Quote: Chris Hallam @ 18th July 2023, 8:41 PM

I don't know anything about the last bit. I'm not really into conspiracy theories.

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It's not a conspiracy theory:

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence in a report released today said that all agencies of the government "continue to assess that both a natural and laboratory-associated origin remain plausible hypotheses to explain the first human infection." https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/23/biden-administration-intelligence-wuhan-lab-00103523

"Scientists who wrote a paper dismissing the so-called "lab leak theory" of the origin of COVID-19 admitted they feared blaming China for accidentally releasing the virus, according to internal communications obtained by a House subcommittee." https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/covid-scientists-before-house-panel-downplayed-lab-leak-in-fear-of-china/

And today, the Biden administration announced plans to cut off funding for the Wuhan lab for 10 years, saying "The N.I.H.'s conclusion that the Wuhan institute "likely violated protocols of the N.I.H. regarding biosafety is undisputed," wrote the official, whose name was redacted. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/18/us/politics/funding-ban-wuhan-institute-virology.html

Quote: Chris Hallam @ 18th July 2023, 8:41 PM

I still wouldn't have fancied seeing what would have happened if our governments had done nothing at all though.

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They could have made reasonable decisions: protect the elderly and unwell, mask and isolate on a voluntary basis, and keep the schools open, but instead, they enacted draconian rulings that devastated the economy, our mental and physical health, and our trust in the government.

Quote: DaButt @ 19th July 2023, 5:14 AM

I

They could have made reasonable decisions: protect the elderly and unwell, mask and isolate on a voluntary basis, and keep the schools open, but instead, they enacted draconian rulings that devastated the economy, our mental and physical health, and our trust in the government.

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LOL. You've never trusted government, DaButt. As I understand it the core of your belief in the right to bear arms is that the government can't be trusted, and you need weapons top protect yourselves from them.

This day, exactly 1 year ago (19th July) was the hottest on record in the UK
Today it's raining and a bit nippy.

Yes we rather got diverted there from climate change to covid. Still a useful exercise in proving that "experts" shouldn't always be believed without question. I particularly liked Fasty's reminder of the so-called millennium bug fiasco.

I got loads of work from the Millennium bug.
Customers insisted that I checked their automated machines would still work on Jan 2nd 2000.
Another example of experts frightening the herd.

My old boss used to define the word expert as 'Ex - the unknown quantity and 'spurt - a drip under pressure.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 19th July 2023, 8:44 AM

I got loads of work from the Millennium bug.
Customers insisted that I checked their automated machines would still work on Jan 2nd 2000.
Another example of experts frightening the herd.

My old boss used to define the word expert as 'Ex - the unknown quantity and 'spurt - a drip under pressure.

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Wasn't the whole point that no-one knew what would happen?
Rather than 95% of scientists saying it would happen?

Quote: Lazzard @ 18th July 2023, 10:42 PM

Why?

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Very good question.
Why on Earth would the government want to prolong the pandemic?
Any answers?
Because it sounds like nonsense.