The welfare state, especially the dole used to be a 'scrape by' payment until you got another job.
Now a lot are comfortable with their state payments. They don't even have to sign on or go to the post office to collect their money.
There are millions of job vacancies so a nudge to go out and earn what you spend is no bad thing in my mind.
Quote: Lazzard @ 2nd October 2022, 2:08 PMBut, in all seriousness, are you happy with massive reduction to the Welfare state?
Not just happy - delighted. It doesn't work for far too many people, and at an obscene cost to the public purse.
Quote: Lazzard @ 2nd October 2022, 2:08 PMWe then have to trust that (IF it works) with all the increased wealth concentrated at the top - some of it will be bestowed on the rest of us.
I'm uncomfortable with that because I don't believe in trickle down economics.
I think "trickle down economics" is a (wilful?) mischaracterisation - there's no doubt it's a lazy pejorative. Of both economics of the right generally, and of what Truss and Kwarteng are proposing. The big mistake of last week IMO was it being a "mini fiscal event" rather than a single, full Budget in which we - and the markets alike - could see the full balance of plans: spending, borrowing and tax-raising alike. Once that is all set out I expect to see a range of tax cuts that will directly help lower earners - VAT very likely to be lowered, NI quite possible too, and some other thresholds raised further.
Quote: Lazzard @ 2nd October 2022, 2:08 PM... on the way to hypothetically "more pie", people don't die from lack of real, actual 'pie'.
I'm not convinced these safeguards are either in place, or even considered important by the current incumbents.
Well that is what the welfare state is there for, of course. It was never envisioned, designed or created to provide (much) more than a last-ditch backstop to penury, starvation and death. It'd be falling into a tedious decades-outdated stereotype based on 18th Century landowners to think there is lack of care and understanding enough to remove it. Reform is the name of the game.
This interview in The Telegraph today is a very good read, and I for one agree with - I think - every last bit of it: https://archive.ph/ZLRsC
It's hard to argue with that as it's based on a world-view I fundamentally disagree with.
But I guess that's why we have a vote.
In her interview with LK earlier Truss did seem to lay the groundwork for throwing Kwasi under the bus.
Quote: Aaron @ 2nd October 2022, 1:57 PMGove is a loon, and anything he attacks has got to be good.
The budget was good, but communicated and prepared badly. I hope Truss is able to stay the course as she has the radical reforming policies we need.
It's not a great advertfor the Tories iif a Tory like you thinks we need radical reforming policies after 12 years of the Tories being in power.
Quote: chipolata @ 2nd October 2022, 3:43 PMIn her interview with LK earlier Truss did seem to lay the groundwork for throwing Kwasi under the bus.
It's not a great advertfor the Tories iif a Tory like you thinks we need radical reforming policies after 12 years of the Tories being in power.
The Tory party is pretty broad church.
I can imagine for certain wings of the party the last 12 years have been frustrating - and probably not 'proper' Tory, in their opinion.
It's the same with Labour - the far-left don't think UKLabour is 'proper' labour.
Quote: Lazzard @ 2nd October 2022, 3:52 PMThe Tory party is pretty broad church.
I can imagine for certain wings of the party the last 12 years have been frustrating - and probably not 'proper' Tory, in their opinion.
It's the same with Labour - the far-left don't think UKLabour is 'proper' labour.
Sadly, I don't think the Tory party is as broad a church as it used to be. There's been a narrowing that threatens to turn off more moderate voters.
Quote: chipolata @ 2nd October 2022, 3:56 PMSadly, I don't think the Tory party is as broad a church as it used to be. There's been a narrowing that threatens to turn off more moderate voters.
I don't think this is at all the case, actually. It's just that those who are less palatable to the chatterati have been more prominent. There are still lots of wildly divergent voices amongst the ranks.
Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng is facing calls for an official inquiry following a report that he attended a private champagne reception with hedge fund managers who stood to gain from a collapse in sterling following his mini-budget.
The Sunday Times reported that he joined the gathering at the Chelsea home of a City financier on the evening of September 23 where he was said to have been "egged on" to commit to his plan for £45 billion of unfunded tax cuts.
Quote: chipolata @ 2nd October 2022, 3:56 PMSadly, I don't think the Tory party is as broad a church as it used to be. There's been a narrowing that threatens to turn off more moderate voters.
Don't know about that.
I think the voices that get heard are narrowing - but I think many aren't happy with the general direction at the moment.
Quote: Aaron @ 2nd October 2022, 3:58 PMI don't think this is at all the case, actually. It's just that those who are less palatable to the chatterati have been more prominent. There are still lots of wildly divergent voices amongst the ranks.
Who do you mean by the chatterarti?
Quote: Chris Hallam @ 2nd October 2022, 5:55 PMWho do you mean by the chatterarti?
It's us, you fool!
?
Quote: Lazzard @ 2nd October 2022, 5:57 PMIt's us, you fool!
?
Probably. But sadly we exert no real influence!
Quote: Chris Hallam @ 2nd October 2022, 6:01 PMProbably. But sadly we exert no real influence!
Indeed, but it's a handy way of boxing away any dissent.
Quote: Chris Hallam @ 2nd October 2022, 5:55 PMWho do you mean by the chatterarti?
Columnists and commentators. Who all too often seem to set the tone and perception amongst the wider public. Some of their takes are reflected in this pages, some are not.
Quote: lofthouse @ 2nd October 2022, 11:54 AMAusterity II is on the way...
Someone's got to pay - and as always it's the poor
Cuts in services and benefits
And rumour is the pension triple lock is for the scrap heap again
You heard it here first:
Quote: Billy Bunter @ 11th April 2020, 4:10 PMAs a result of the government opting to crash the economy there will be no funds available for future investment in the NHS (or anything else) and people will be living in poorer and more depressing conditions as a result of job losses and lack of opportunities.
So the question is, while the hope is apparently that we may save some lives from coronavirus from the "lockdown", how many will we in fact lose in the long-term as a knock-on effect? And is it a fair trade? Better ask future generations that one.
Quote: Billy Bunter @ 14th April 2020, 5:55 PMWhether or not the lockdown is saving lives or whether the figures would be just the same without the lockdown is pure conjecture. We will never actually know so there is little point in continuing to argue about it.
What we will find out in due course, though, is the effect of the crashing of the economy.