Johnson seems to be looking more and more like Sir Bernard Chumley each day...
I read the news today oh boy! Page 2,236
Trade deal negotiations dead line now extended again
Deal is already 97% done
Still convinced this nonsense is all for show and it will be done..
I think they'll get it over the line.
Both sides - who'll both have to give a little - trying to work out how to spin it so it sounds like they won.
Won't help my kids though.
Exactly
Neither side wants it to look like they're the ones that backed down
Games
With something that will effect normal people for years and years to come
Scandalous
We'll take 100% of the pain whilst they divided that pain by 28 and take less than 4% each. I know which side's eyes are watering the most currently. But being positive, everyone will get an achievement certificate, everyone's a winner. 
Quote: Lazzard @ 13th December 2020, 12:58 PMI think they'll get it over the line.
Both sides - who'll both have to give a little - trying to work out how to spin it so it sounds like they won.
Won't help my kids though.
It's up to you to help your kids. It's not Brexit that will hinder them; it's this bloody virus.
Quote: Chappers @ 13th December 2020, 8:48 PMIt's up to you to help your kids.
Thanks for the advice, you twat.
You don't know the first thing about my kids hopes and aspirations.
A better man than you would apologise for that comment.
Quote: Lazzard @ 7th December 2020, 10:07 PMThis is an ideological project.
Only partly, not wholly. It is just as much a practical one (whether it works or not), largely to control net immigration which was unsustainable staying in the EU, who refused any reform of the free movement rules. Post ref polling surveys revealed that controlling immigration was strongly the prime motive for the majority of leavers' votes, nostalgic ideologies were there but secondary to or branches of the main reason.
The hard line Brexiteers in BJ's Govt. including Boris himself have certainly seized on the ideological aspect of Brexit but the people of the UK voted us out, not the Tory govt. And according to the analysts, this was primarily on immigration and the detrimental effect it had on their wages, pensions, job prospects, NHS waiting lists and the prospects of owning or even renting somewhere to live. For this they were labelled racists by many disgruntled remain voters.
Not all Brexit voters were racist by any means. A sizeable minority of them were, certainly enough to swing the vote. It's hard not to feel a vote which moved one man to assassinate a pro-immigration MP while shouting "Death to all traitors" didn't have a racist element to it.
But that's not the point. The debate has moved on from analysing the results of a vote which took place nearly five years ago.. The point is we are now in genuine trouble now because of this. And some of you seem so busy refighting the 2016 campaign in your head that you haven't woken up to the fact that we are in very real trouble now because of this.
What's a sizeable minority? Same as a small majority?
As oppose to the real trouble if we stayed in. Net migration at nearly 0.4 million annually and rising every year. Where do you think these people are going to live? The only places left to build new homes is the once sacred green belt. Whose jobs are they going to take by needing less income because so many of them are living a dozen or more to small houses? The answer was already proven to be ours.
A huge swage of low to middle income workers across Britain have lived on stagnated wages for years, with little chance of getting other or better employment because the job market was vastly over supplied with cheaper labour from eastern and southern Europe. The resulting dearth of available housing meant the cost of renting soared, the demand on the NHS led to huge queues for treatments and a poorer service, while getting to work was getting harder with roads and railways becoming gridlocked.
There was no rosy future staying in the EU for the majority of Brits, just for the well off professional classes who could afford second homes abroad with incomes and lifestyles unaffected by mass migration.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 14th December 2020, 8:15 AMAs oppose to the real trouble if we stayed in. Net migration at nearly 0.4 million annually and rising every year. Where do you think these people are going to live? The only places left to build new homes is the once sacred green belt. Whose jobs are they going to take by needing less income because so many of them are living a dozen or more to small houses? The answer was already proven to be ours.
A huge swage of low to middle income workers across Britain have lived on stagnated wages for years, with little chance of getting other or better employment because the job market was vastly over supplied with cheaper labour from eastern and southern Europe. The resulting dearth of available housing meant the cost of renting soared, the demand on the NHS led to huge queues for treatments and a poorer service, while getting to work was getting harder with roads and railways becoming gridlocked.
There was no rosy future staying in the EU for the majority of Brits, just for the well off professional classes who could afford second homes abroad with incomes and lifestyles unaffected by mass migration.
I was going to unpick every single point - but thought it quicker to agree with the one that has some basis.
Housing: there is continued upward pressure on housing due to the appalling record of housebuilding in this country - though there is plenty of land, it's just that house-builders want the easy pickings - but that's what happens when you let the market decide. Obviously ANY increase in population would exacerbate this.
However it's worth noting that net migration has been on a downward trend since 2015 - with the current figure at 226 thousand.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 13th December 2020, 11:48 PMOnly partly, not wholly. It is just as much a practical one (whether it works or not), largely to control net immigration which was unsustainable staying in the EU, who refused any reform of the free movement rules. Post ref polling surveys revealed that controlling immigration was strongly the prime motive for the majority of leavers' votes, nostalgic ideologies were there but secondary to or branches of the main reason.
The hard line Brexiteers in BJ's Govt. including Boris himself have certainly seized on the ideological aspect of Brexit but the people of the UK voted us out, not the Tory govt. And according to the analysts, this was primarily on immigration and the detrimental effect it had on their wages, pensions, job prospects, NHS waiting lists and the prospects of owning or even renting somewhere to live. For this they were labelled racists by many disgruntled remain voters.
Sorry - hadn't read this earlier post.
I sort of agree - it was all about immigration.
But you've got it the wrong way round.
People's fear of immigration was stoked by those with hard-line idealogical motives.
The only think I blame the ordinary Brexit voter for is being mugged by the ideologues into doing their dirty work for them.
It's their victory, not yours.