Hope the two lumps of shit rot in hell.
I read the news today oh boy! Page 1,820
. . . and on the subject of innocent kids . . . I used to admire Katie Hopkins' spunk but now she's just plain boring and spouting ridiculous nonsense.
I blame the zoo (how the holy hell does a child fall into a gorilla enclosure?!) AND the parents, but to pick on a defenceless child? It didn't choose to be born and you certainly can't choose your parents, so just shut-up, Katie.
Quote: fopdoodle @ 1st June 2016, 11:08 AM BSTI blame the zoo (how the holy hell does a child fall into a gorilla enclosure?!) AND the parents, but to pick on a defenceless child?
I've read that the father wasn't even at the zoo, so at the most we should be blaming a parent, not parents. And anyone who has ever had children knows that you can't keep an eye on them every second, no matter how hard you try, and it only takes a second for them to get in all sorts of trouble.
Zoo enclosures are designed to keep dangerous animals in, but keeping people out shouldn't require more than a fence to ensure that someone can't trip and fall into them. From what I've read, the child climbed a fence, crawled through bushes and then concussed himself after falling into the enclosure. All but the youngest/stupidest people should realize that jumping 15 feet onto concrete to hang out with dangerous animals is a bad idea.
One thing that annoys me is when the UK press fabricates quotes. I looked up the Katie Hopkins story and a news outlet had "Mummy, I want to swim with the gorilla': Boy's last words" as a headline. There's no way that an American kid would say "mummy" so why is it allowed to be in quotes? I see it all the time where they attribute a British-ism to Americans: "I was sitting on the loo whilst a large lorry smashed into the boot of a car, splashing flaming petrol all over the bleedin' street." I'm sure English readers are capable of reading and comprehending American speech.
Quote: DaButt @ 1st June 2016, 1:45 PM BSTI've read that the father wasn't even at the zoo, so at the most we should be blaming a parent, not parents. And anyone who has ever had children knows that you can't keep an eye on them every second, no matter how hard you try, and it only takes a second for them to get in all sorts of trouble.
If it was only one parent that makes scenario even worse as they can't defend themselves by passing the buck and stating "I thought he/she was watching him!"
But what the hell were the other people doing?! Presuming others were looking in same direction, how did nobody see, in the time it took for the little boy to climb, crawl and whatever he did to gain access? There MUST be cameras, surely - as this isn't a unique incident, and zoos must need to avoid any potential for a lawsuit which could close them down if there was a fatality.
Quote: fopdoodle @ 1st June 2016, 2:17 PM BSTBut what the hell were the other people doing?! Presuming others were looking in same direction, how did nobody see, in the time it took for the little boy to climb, crawl and whatever he did to gain access?
It happened so quickly that nobody had time to grab him.
An eyewitness:
Out of the corner of my eye, I saw the little boy in the bushes past the little fence area. I tried to grab for him. I started yelling at him to come back. Everybody started screaming and going crazy. It happened so fast.
Another witness:
I was taking a pic of the female gorilla, when my eldest son yells, "what is he doing? " I looked down, and to my surprise, there was a small child that had apparently, literally "flopped" over the railing, where there was then about 3 feet of ground that the child quickly crawled through! ! I assumed the woman next to me was the mother, getting ready to grab him until she says, "Whose kid is this? " None of us actually thought he'd go over the nearly 15 foot drop, but he was crawling so fast through the bushes before myself or husband could grab him, he went over! The crowed got a little frantic and the mother was calling for her son. Actually, just prior to him going over, but she couldn't see him crawling through the bushes! She said "He was right here! I took a pic and his hand was in my back pocket and then gone!" As she could find him nowhere, she lookes to my husband (already over the railing talking to the child) and asks, "Sir, is he wearing green shorts? " My husband reluctantly had to tell her yes, when she then nearly had a break down! They are both wanting to go over into the 15 foot drop, when I forbade my husband to do so, and attempted to calm the mother by calling 911 and assure her help was on the way. Neither my husband or the mother would have made that jump without breaking something! I wasn't leaving with my boys, because I didn't trust my husband not to jump in and the gorilla did just seem to be protective of the child. It wasn't until the gorilla became agitated because of the nosey, dramatic, helpless crowd; that the gorilla violently ran with the child! And it was very violent; although I think the gorilla was still trying to protect, we're taking a 400 lb gorilla throwing a 40 lb toddler around! It was horrific! The zoo responded very quickly, clearing the area and attempting to save both the child and the gorilla! The right choice was made. Thank God the child survived with non-life threatening, but serious injuries! This was an open exhibit! Which means the only thing separating you from the gorillas, is a 15 ish foot drop and a moat and some bushes! ! This mother was not negligent and the zoo did an awesome job handling the situation! Especially since that had never happened before! ! Thankful for the zoo and their attempts and my thoughts and prayers goes out to this boy, his mother and his family.
At the very least we can agree it was 100% human error. So it's a shame the only one punished was the entirely innocent gorilla.
Quote: zooo @ 1st June 2016, 4:00 PM BSTAt the very least we can agree it was 100% human error. So it's a shame the only one punished was the entirely innocent gorilla.
It's a shame, but when it comes down to a child's life or an animal's, the child wins every time.
That's why tranquiliser darts exist.
I hope the kid realises it's his fault the animal is dead. Not that I want him to top himself from the guilt or anything, but it's important to understand consequences, and he might f**king behave a bit more in future. There's no way he didn't know he was being naughty, climbing into the enclosure.
Quote: zooo @ 1st June 2016, 4:27 PM BSTThat's why tranquiliser darts exist.
Bong. "On tonight's news a confused gorilla, having been shot with a tranquiliser dart, rips a four year-old child to pieces. You may find some of the following scenes distressing."
Quote: zooo @ 1st June 2016, 4:27 PM BSTThat's why tranquiliser darts exist.
The darts take 10-15 minutes to take effect. In the meantime you have a 400-pound gorilla who is suddenly enraged that he's been shot and injured and there's a small child right next to him -- a child that he could rip limb from limb with no effort at all.
It's not difficult to imagine an alternate scenario where the keepers trying the tranquilizer approach and the subsequent uproar when a 3-year-old is mauled to death on YouTube.
Put yourself in the mother's shoes: her toddler is being dragged around by a wild animal. Now imagine that you can freeze time for a moment and have a conversation with the zookeepers:
"Ma'am, we can shoot the gorilla with a dart. The dart will hurt the animal and we have no idea how it will react for the next 10-15 minutes. There's a chance he could tear your child apart in front of your eyes. Or we can shoot it in the head and kill it instantly. What's your choice?"
Any parent who would risk their child's life for a zoo animal's isn't fit to be a parent.
Quote: zooo @ 1st June 2016, 4:27 PM BSTI hope the kid realises it's his fault the animal is dead. Not that I want him to top himself from the guilt or anything, but it's important to understand consequences, and he might f**king behave a bit more in future. There's no way he didn't know he was being naughty, climbing into the enclosure.
He's 3 years old. He's probably still shitting in a diaper. He fell 15 feet and suffered a concussion when he hit his head on the concrete. He has no sense of guilt and doesn't understand the concept of death.
He's still a twat.
Quote: DaButt @ 1st June 2016, 5:35 PM BSTPut yourself in the mother's shoes
I can confidently say any kid with me wouldn't have been allowed to climb in. If I'm in charge of anyone I overly-paranoidly watch them like a f**king hawk.
The zoo is partly responsible for not making the enclosure toddler proof but they did the right thing. It's very sad but at least the boy wasn't seriously hurt.
Quote: zooo @ 1st June 2016, 5:59 PM BSTIf I'm in charge of anyone I overly-paranoidly watch them like a f**king hawk.
As do all parents, but every parent will have stories about the time their child did something dangerous in the blink of an eye. You literally can't watch them every second of the day and when they're unwatched for even the briefest time they can get into big trouble.
The only way to be 100% sure that your kid doesn't wander away in a split second is to hold them or restrain them in a stroller. Anyone who knows 3-year-olds knows that they are too heavy and squirmy to be held for more than a few seconds and they don't like being confined to a stroller.
This is a classic case of something going completely wrong, unexpectedly, in the space of 3 or 4 seconds. Had the mother been truly negligent I could see blaming her, but she wasn't. She was watching other children as well, and the kid got out of her sight for a second or two. Taking a bunch of kids to the zoo or an amusement park is like herding cats and your eyes can't be everywhere at the same time.
It was a tragic accident and the gorilla's death is lamentable, but better the gorilla's than the boy's.
Gutted that the gorilla was shot, and all for what can only be classed as human error, as usual, innocent animals at the receiving end of it.
Personally, I would have been more concerned if the child was being dragged away by a devil dog.
As is, the gorilla was seen to be protecting the kid, yes, he could have turned at any moment, being a wild animal suddenly confronted by an alien invader to his territory, yes, most probably the dart may not have took effect quickly enough, but a wonderful protected animal was shot down for doing exactly zilch to that child. I'm struggling to get beyond that at the moment.
Quote: Shandonbelle @ 1st June 2016, 6:43 PM BSTAs is, the gorilla was seen to be protecting the kid
He was also dragging him violently around the enclosure.
From a Facebook post by a zookeeper with experience dealing with gorillas:
I keep hearing that the Gorilla was trying to protect the boy. I do not find this to be true. Harambe reaches for the boy's hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes.
Males do very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about. Typically they would drag large branches, barrels and heavy weighted balls around to make as much noise as possible. Not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually) but just to intimidate. It was clear to me that he was reacting to the screams coming from the gathering crowd.
Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first (again due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent) Why didn't they use treats? well, they attempted to call them off exhibit (which animals hate), the females in the group came in, but Harambe did not. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid!
They didn't use Tranquilizers for a few reasons,
A. Harambe would've taken too long to become immobilized, and could have really injured the child in the process as the drugs used may not work quickly enough depending on the stress of the situation and the dose
B. Harambe would've have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water, and possibly fallen on the boy trapping him and drowning him as well.