Your English is brilliant!
Just wondered if there were particular shows you thought were as poo as the X Factor. 
Sitcoms written by stand-ups Page 4
Quote: zooo @ April 19 2013, 4:16 PM BSTYour English is brilliant!
Just wondered if there were particular shows you thought were as poo as the X Factor.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks these talent shows are producing musical excrements.
But music talent shows aren't about the music, they're about the soap opera entertainment of finding a winner. And people like Simon Cowell understand that.
Quote: chipolata @ April 19 2013, 4:27 PM BSTBut music talent shows aren't about the music, they're about the soap opera entertainment of finding a winner. And people like Simon Cowell understand that.
It wasn't the best possible comparison I admit that.
But we have to accept that not everyone is interested in the same elements in a sitcom. And executives may choose the scripts by the popularity of its writer...but in many cases it seems to be the "right decision", commercially speaking.
Quote: Gordon Bennett @ April 19 2013, 5:17 PM BSTBut we have to accept that not everyone is interested in the same elements in a sitcom. And executives may choose the scripts by the popularity of its writer...but in many cases it seems to be the "right decision", commercially speaking.
Someone with the time and tools should do a survey of this new wave of standup written sitcoms. (It has to be a very rapidly increasing trend now.) Ratings, critical ratings, forum ratings, number of series made, etc. Styles and influences, because most of the ones I've seen seem incredibly derivative or very easily influenced by certain shows and styles. CYE could be a major influence on several of the ones I've seen so far.
Specialist sitcom writers do not seem as reliant on other sitcom influences, to me. They may make the odd dud, or unfunny one or forced one, but they seem more reliant on traditional sitcom staples.
Is it the right decision in many cases though? I'm not sure it is in that many. NGO is clearly one, but I'm really struggling to think of anymore clear commercial successes.
GH got a fair bit of praise but a bit of stick too. Meaningless though against the evidence of weak ratings. HO got pitiful ratings (but I bet it gets a 2nd series.) They are fast pulling down the average ratings of the once mighty sitcom. I glance at the ratings of a lot of these 'standcoms' and they often hovver around the 1m mark, some less, only a rare few get considerably more.
Now look the best writer written sitcoms or most popular, of late. Miranda averaging 7m plus, MBB just under, the return of Ab Fab the same, even one series flops like The Royal Bodyguard got 4m average. Condemned shows like Life Of Riley even got much better ratings. Trad studio sitcoms by writers!
So the standcoms are not good commercial decisions, these tiny insular standup written sitcoms are not what the majority of viewers want. Most but the comedian's own fans don't turn on. Commercially they are a disaster, I'd say! What other business would happily replace a core of 4m average rated products for a new trendy range that gets 1m? They are a f**king disaster commercially! The broadcasters, especially the increasingly questionable Beeb are trying to fool themselves and us.
It's a disgrace what's going on in sitcom commissioning, a shameful f**king disgrace! I bet if an intruder got into WR and gathered all the rejected sitcom scripts up they'd find a small pile of good ratings pulling scripts and maybe one or two gems. A new broom is needed at BBC comedy commissioning, a clearout. That department is unfit to continue as it stands.
(Sue Perkins isn't a standup.)
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 19 2013, 7:05 PM BSTSo the standcoms are not good commercial decisions, these tiny insular standup written sitcoms are not what the majority of viewers want. Most but the comedian's own fans don't turn on. Commercially they are a disaster, I'd say! What other business would happily replace a core of 4m average rated products for a new trendy range that gets 1m? They are a f**king disaster commercially! The broadcasters, especially the increasingly questionable Beeb are trying to fool themselves and us.
If that's really the case then it's indeed a boneheaded move. Someone wrote in another thread that the broadcasters aren't able to tell a good script from a bad one these days. They are that insecure. Maybe a firm like the BBC should have a independant (not involved in an actual script) committee consisting of professional writers who decide which script is good and which is shit. I mean, this is not a perfect concept...but better than relying solely on popular names I think.
She was, I believe, or still is even. Started out as a double act with Mel G... I read reviews of their tours in the 90s. SP has even, I think I'm right in thinking, returned to it solo after much TV and radio success in other roles.
She used to be in the Footlights at uni/have a comedy act with Mel, but I think she's been more of a writer and presenter since the mid 90s at least?
Quote: zooo @ April 19 2013, 7:47 PM BSTbut I think she's been more of a writer and presenter since the mid 90s at least?
I grant you that is true, she's an extremely busy performer in many genres, but I believe she had big success as a solo standup. 'Glasses wearer of the year' tour. Didn't that win her an Edinburgh award not long ago. ? I think. Not purely a standup but still a standup. I think.
Ah really? Fair enough then, I hadn't heard of that!
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 19 2013, 7:05 PM BSTSomeone with the time and tools should do a survey of this new wave of standup written sitcoms. (It has to be a very rapidly increasing trend now.) Ratings, critical ratings, forum ratings, number of series made, etc. Styles and influences, because most of the ones I've seen seem incredibly derivitive or very easily influenced by certain shows and styles. CYE could be a major influence on several of the ones I've seen so far.
Specialist sitcom writers do not seem as reliant on other sitcom influences, to me. They may make the odd dud, or unfunny one or forced one, but they seem more reliant on traditional sitcom staples.
Is it the right decision in many cases though? I'm not sure it is in that many. NGO is clearly one, but I'm really struggling to think of anymore clear commercial successes.
GH got a fair bit of praise but a bit of stick too. Meaningless though against the evidence of weak ratings. HO got pitiful ratings (but I bet it gets a 2nd series.) They are fast pulling down the average ratings of the once mighty sitcom. I glance at the ratings of a lot of these 'standcoms' and they often hovver around the 1m mark, some less, only a rare few get considerably more.
Now look the best writer written sitcoms or most popular, of late. Miranda averaging 7m plus, MBB just under, the return of Ab Fab the same, even one series flops like The Royal Bodyguard got 4m average. Condemned shows like Life Of Riley even got much better ratings. Trad studio sitcoms by writers!
So the standcoms are not good commercial decisions, these tiny insular standup written sitcoms are not what the majority of viewers want. Most but the comedian's own fans don't turn on. Commercially they are a disaster, I'd say! What other business would happily replace a core of 4m average rated products for a new trendy range that gets 1m? They are a f**king disaster commercially! The broadcasters, especially the increasingly questionable Beeb are trying to fool themselves and us.
It's a disgrace what's going on in sitcom commissioning, a shameful f**king disgrace! I bet if an intruder got into WR and gathered all the rejected sitcom scripts up they'd find a small pile of good ratings pulling scripts and maybe one or two gems. A new broom is needed at BBC comedy commissioning, a clearout. That department is unfit to continue as it stands.
Since when did we judge things by ratings? On audience ratings (which have more to do with time slot than quality) The Royal Bodyguard was a better show than Peep Show, but I don't think anyone here is going to seriously entertain that argument. Commissioned writers have produced lots of boring derivative shit over the years, whereas, as pointed out in earlier in the thread, Partridge, The Young Ones and Spaced were all written by people that had stand-up backgrounds. I'll add Father Ted to the list. Still, My Family got better viewing figures.
Comedy in general doesn't get great viewing figures and depends on a lot more than the script to succeed. You can't really blame the Beeb production companies for picking the guy with a track record of being funny, industry knowledge and [often] performing ability over the bedroom writer sending in spec scripts that might just be brilliant in the right hands. Miranda, Mrs. Brown's Boys and Ab Fab all got commissioned on live performance success rather than spec scripts too...
The Beeb's alternative to commissioning stuff from stand-ups would probably be returning to the time-honoured tradition of commissioning stuff from their funnier former Footlights chums anyway. (Next debate topic: what have the Oxbridge alumni ever done for us?)
Quote: enigmatic @ April 19 2013, 10:07 PM BSTOn audience ratings (which have more to do with time slot than quality) The Royal Bodyguard was a better show than Peep Show, but I don't think anyone here is going to seriously entertain that argument.
Try me. 
Quote: enigmatic @ April 19 2013, 10:07 PM BSTI'll add Father Ted to the list.
I don't think Graham Linehan and Arthur Matthews (the writers) were ever stand-ups. Dermot Morgan and Ardal O'Hanlon (Ted and Dougal) were though.
Quote: enigmatic @ April 19 2013, 10:07 PM BSTSince when did we judge things by ratings? On audience ratings (which have more to do with time slot than quality) The Royal Bodyguard was a better show than Peep Show, but I don't think anyone here is going to seriously entertain that argument. Commissioned writers have produced lots of boring derivative shit over the years, whereas, as pointed out in earlier in the thread, Partridge, The Young Ones and Spaced were all written by people that had stand-up backgrounds. I'll add Father Ted to the list. Still, My Family got better viewing figures.
Well, interesting to get a defence of the system. My main point was that it is on the rapid rise and it may even be the main source of broadcasters' sitcoms now, but until someone surveys this, we won't know. I don't agree with it being the main source of our TV sitcoms for reasons already listed.
A few really good ones have been made by ex-standups yes, but they have been exceptional comedians, in other words, great all round comedians for whom standup was just one facet or phase. I doubt if standup is considered Coogan's true metier. He was a character standup and I think that's almost a different genre to straight standup anyway. I don't want classics like IAP or TYO not to be made, I just want the heavy inclination to go straight to standups for our sitcoms to be wound right back to a more sensible balance in favour of the skilled narrative sitcom writer again.
Yes, some writers made rubbish, but sometimes the broadcasters wanted rubbish or put the emphasis way too much on it being safe and broad. That stance has changed so much now there's hardly a pre-watershed sitcom aired at the mo. I think they've gone way too much the other way and the middle ground needs to be got back to more.