Quote: Harridan @ December 15 2012, 1:24 PM GMTExcept that the function of a car is transport, the function of a firearm is death.
I will be sure to pass on your thoughts to the Paralympic Shooting Team. Bloody handicapped death mongers.
EDIT: Ironically, some of them were paralysed in car accidents or by drunk drivers.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 15 2012, 1:28 PM GMTI will be sure to pass on your thoughts to the Paralympic Shooting Team. Bloody handicapped death mongers.
EDIT: Ironically, some of them were paralysed in car accidents or by drunk drivers.
I can't be arsed with your bullshit today, RC. You really are tediously predictable with these things. Being controversial isn't the same as being interesting, you know. It would be much nicer to have a discussion with you where you present your genuine opinion rather than the opinion that is contrary to whatever the previous person said.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 15 2012, 1:23 PM GMTThe majority of Americans also own cars and there are 40,000 deaths a year on their roads. .
Twice as many fatalities per 100,000 cars as the UK.
So, looks like they can shoot a damn sight better than they can drive,
Monkeys.
Quote: Harridan @ December 15 2012, 1:31 PM GMTI can't be arsed with your bullshit today, RC. You really are tediously predictable with these things. Being controversial isn't the same as being interesting, you know. It would be much nicer to have a discussion with you where you present your genuine opinion rather than the opinion that is contrary to whatever the previous person said.
As someone who's been shooting, I have a much more insightful and knowledgeable opinion on the matter then the vast majority of people on this forum.
I am not being contrary for the sake of it, it's just the levels of sheepish ignorance expressed on here by the uninformed force my hand.
The fact that my opinion is contrary to yours and is therefore invalid, is just the kind of liberal bullying I expect on this forum.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 15 2012, 1:23 PM GMTThe majority of Americans own firearms, so that will never happen.
No they don't, a quick search shows that fewer than half of American households have guns. But the firearms culture in the US is pretty damn strong, for sure.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 15 2012, 1:39 PM GMTAs someone who's been shooting, I have a much more insightful and knowledgeable opinion on the matter then the vast majority of people on this forum.
I am not being contrary for the sake of it, it's just the levels of sheepish ignorance expressed on here by the uninformed force my hand.
The fact that my opinion is contrary to yours and is therefore invalid, is just the kind of liberal bullying I expect on this forum.
I've been shooting too. Not that that actually makes my or your opinion any more valid. Try making arguments from facts rather than some perceived position of authority.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 15 2012, 1:39 PM GMTAs someone who's been shooting, I have a much more insightful and knowledgeable opinion on the matter then the vast majority of people on this forum.
I am not being contrary for the sake of it, it's just the levels of sheepish ignorance expressed on here by the uninformed force my hand.
The fact that my opinion is contrary to yours and is therefore invalid, is just the kind of liberal bullying I expect on this forum.
You openly admit on a regular basis the fact that you are being a devil's advocate just for the heck of it.
I have also been shooting, clay pigeon and at rifle ranges. Assuming you're the only person who knows anything doesn't automatically mean the rest of us are ignorant sheep.
BTW:
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 15 2012, 1:14 PM
GMTI'll be his UK representative for the time being. According to the BBC, the shooter fit the classic profile - introverted loner with no friends or social skills and most likely suffering from an undiagnosed personality disorder.
I think new laws need to be introduced to spot these freaks at an early age and have them tagged and possibly excluded from society.
Getting rid of the looneys is the only sure way to keep society safe.
I agree the above needs to happen, not necessarily *instead* of stricter guns laws though. Not that it matters, it's pretty unlikely any politician will want to kick that hornets nest any time soon.
Oh RC is just a poor mans Frankie Boyle
Look at me everyone, making totally inapropriate comments about the poor,disabled,ethnic minorities,mentally ill, overweight etc etc etc
But! It's ok! It's not my real opinion - I'm just joking!
Well when you do it all the time none stop constantly day in day out, the mask slips
It's not just banter
It's clear you are just a nasty piece of work
Quote: Harridan @ December 15 2012, 1:42 PM GMTI have also been shooting, clay pigeon and at rifle ranges. Assuming you're the only person who knows anything doesn't automatically mean the rest of us are ignorant sheep.
I thought you said the function of firearms was death? Did you not kill anyone when you went shooting? And if not, why not?
I did use the expression 'the vast majority'. Citing one or two examples does not infer 'the vast majority'.
Previous debates on this forum (and there have been a fair few) usually result in unprecedented levels of 'Chicken Little' style behaviour, typically fearful responses and many personal attacks, usually against DaButt.
If you are of the opinion that an inanimate object is inherently evil, then there is very little anyone can do to change your mind. We also know that prohibition does little to curb any problem - armed drug gangs and Raoul Moat are prime examples.
So, if you want me to engage in any kind of meaningful debate, then coming out with something like 'there should be stronger background checks' or 'psychological profiling needs to be increased' will get a more intellectual response from me. Crying hysterically 'ban all gunz!', will result in me just mocking members of the forum for their naive and childlike opinions.
Quote: Raymond Terrific @ December 15 2012, 1:51 PM GMTI agree the above needs to happen, not necessarily *instead* of stricter guns laws though. Not that it matters, it's pretty unlikely any politician will want to kick that hornets nest any time soon.
See, now this is a starting point for a sensible discussion.
The fact you can even remember Raoul Moat's name highlights the difference between the level of gun crime here and the US. Over there what he did would barely have been reported.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 15 2012, 1:57 PM GMTSee, now this is a starting point for a sensible discussion.
More of a finishing point really 
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 15 2012, 1:56 PM GMTI thought you said the function of firearms was death? Did you not kill anyone when you went shooting? And if not, why not?
I did use the expression 'the vast majority'. Citing one or two examples does not infer 'the vast majority'.
Previous debates on this forum (and there have been a fair few) usually result in unprecedented levels of 'Chicken Little' style behaviour, typically fearful responses and many personal attacks, usually against DaButt.
If you are of the opinion that an inanimate object is inherently evil, then there is very little anyone can do to change your mind. We also know that prohibition does little to curb any problem - armed drug gangs and Raoul Moat are prime examples.
So, if you want me to engage in any kind of meaningful debate, then coming out with something like 'there should be stronger background checks' or 'psychological profiling needs to be increased' will get a more intellectual response from me. Crying hysterically 'ban all gunz!', will result in me just mocking members of the forum for their naive and childlike opinions.
How on earth can you know whether the 'vast majority' have ever been shooting? And don't pretend that you weren't trying to give yourself an air of authority over us liberal lefty sheep.
I don't think I ever said that a gun is inherently evil. I don't think anyone anywhere thinks that. I also don't remember anyone hysterically crying 'ban all gunz'. Stop making strawman arguments and maybe people will take you seriously.
The purpose of a gun is to kill things, you can use a gun without killing something, but the purpose of a gun is still to kill things. The purpose of a car is to transport people and things, you can use a car to kill, but its purpose is still transportation.
I think there are valid uses for guns. I think some people need guns. I don't think the average person needs a gun for their personal protection.
ugh.
Quote: Raymond Terrific @ December 15 2012, 2:01 PM GMTThe fact you can even remember Raoul Moat's name highlights the difference between the level of gun crime here and the US. Over there what he did would barely have been reported.
That is certainly true. When one of the leading causes of death for young black men in America is being murdered, then you realise you have a problem on a societal level. (And yes, the guns used to kill these young black men were obtained illegally, so no gun law would have stopped it)
America also has the majority of the world's serial killers. Not sure what kind of laws you'd need to bring in to stop that.
Quote: Harridan @ December 15 2012, 2:03 PM GMTI think there are valid uses for guns. I think some people need guns. I don't think the average person needs a gun for their personal protection.
Here is where we totally agree. Though if I lived in America, where vast distances are involved, police response times are long, dangerous animals prowled nearby and the remoteness of locations provided opportunity for violent crime, then firearms for personal protection would make some sense.
Quote: Harridan @ December 15 2012, 2:03 PM GMTI don't think I ever said that a gun is inherently evil. I don't think anyone anywhere thinks that. I also don't remember anyone hysterically crying 'ban all gunz'. Stop making strawman arguments and maybe people will take you seriously.
I wasn't singling you out personally, I apologise if it came across that way. I was merely harking back to previous gun debates on the BCG and the overwhelming opinions of the majority including their personal attacks on DaButt because he dared have a contrary opinion.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 15 2012, 2:07 PM GMTThat is certainly true. When one of the leading causes of death for young black men in America is being murdered, then you realise you have a problem on a societal level. (And yes, the guns used to kill these young black men were obtained illegally, so no gun law would have stopped it)
The argument is that legal weapons are a chief source for illegal weapons, so reducing one reduces the other. Also a criminal should be less likely to open fire on innocent people if he's sure they're not going to be armed, that's why even though there is less burglary in the states, far more of them end with the houseowner getting murdered (the burglar is going to have the jump, after all). It's a weird paradox that being unarmed probably makes you safer.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 15 2012, 2:07 PM GMTAmerica also has the majority of the world's serial killers. Not sure what kind of laws you'd need to bring in to stop that.
I think we covered that earlier, more early warnings for people showing signs, and more controls on gun availability.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 15 2012, 2:12 PM GMTI wasn't singling you out personally, I apologise if it came across that way. I was merely harking back to previous gun debates on the BCG and the overwhelming opinions of the majority including their personal attacks on DaButt because he dared have a contrary opinion.
That's probably why we often end up arguing - you project opinions form people you previously had discussions with onto the people you are currently talking to.
Quote: Raymond Terrific @ December 15 2012, 2:12 PM GMTThe argument is that legal weapons are a chief source for illegal weapons, so reducing one reduces the other. Also a criminal should be less likely to open fire on innocent people if he's sure they're not going to be armed, that's why even though there is less burglary in the states, far more of them end with the houseowner getting murdered (the burglar is going to have the jump, after all). It's a weird paradox that being unarmed probably makes you safer.
I think we covered that earlier, more early warnings for people showing signs, and more controls on gun availability.
Gun availability won't curtail serial killings, most of them use other forms of violence to torture and murder their victims.
Illegal guns in the UK aren't a result of stealing legally owned UK guns. If you can smuggle drugs and people, then you can smuggle firearms.
As for your argument about being safer unarmed, there have been a huge amount of justifiable homicides in America from armed citizens, reports indicate that areas with high levels of CCW (concealed carry weapon) permit holders have reduced and as is evidenced by the targets chosen by recent mass shooters - cinemas, schools, colleges, etc., they deliberately go to places where there is unlikely to be people with guns.