Quote: Pingl @ December 11 2012, 5:40 PM GMTIn the good times many people wouldn't touch the kind of work most immigrants do.
More a case of not being prepared to do the jobs at the wages are prepared to accept, hence the plutocracy always encouraging immigration during the 'good times' in order to avoid any actual redistribution of wealth.
*damn*
Quote: Tursiops @ December 11 2012, 5:49 PM GMTMore a case of not being prepared to do the jobs at the wages are prepared to accept, hence the plutocracy always encouraging immigration during the 'good times' in order to avoid any actual redistribution of wealth.
*damn*
That's what I done said, but not so eloquently.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 11 2012, 5:48 PM GMTQuoting what happened in the past with regards to immigration is a bit of a misleading argument. The amounts of people travelling to live and work in the UK is at a level never seen before in our history.
As for the jobs that others wouldn't touch, the employers have been allowed to keep wages artificially low thanks to the willingness of immigrants to take any job. A good case in point is Tube drivers and dustmen. These jobs are highly prized due to their excellent wages, even though they are not the most desireable forms of employment.
Blaming capitalism and then championing it seems a very duplicitous argument in favour of mass immigration.
I don't champion capitalism, I work with the system I've got not some fairytale land where British whites get paid more than immigrants because they were born here. There is an economic school of thought that says the quickest way out of the present economic mess is more immigration not less. London has always been an overcrowded melting pot, that is what you get if you live there.
Quote: Tursiops @ December 11 2012, 5:49 PM GMTMore a case of not being prepared to do the jobs at the wages are prepared to accept, hence the plutocracy always encouraging immigration during the 'good times' in order to avoid any actual redistribution of wealth.
*damn*
Oh dear, that is the system we live in, I hadn't noticed the revolution had started. But let me know when it happens I'll be with you on the barricades
Quote: Pingl @ December 11 2012, 5:54 PM GMTThere is an economic school of thought that says the quickest way out of the present economic mess is more immigration not less.
Well, we all know the state of schools in this country. Though I am fascinated to know how a few million more unskilled and unqualified immigrants to the UK would help with the economy. Please enlighten me further.
Quote: Pingl @ December 11 2012, 5:55 PM GMTLondon has always been an overcrowded melting pot, that is what you get if you live there.
Not anymore, the melting pot is excluding the white indigenous population.
Quote: Pingl @ December 11 2012, 5:55 PM GMTOh dear, that is the system we live in, I hadn't noticed the revolution had started. But let me know when it happens I'll be with you on the barricades
Hang on, are you saying it is a good thing that immigration is a good thing or not? You can't hail the benefits then shrug your shoulders when the downside is pointed out.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 11 2012, 5:57 PM GMTWell, we all know the state of schools in this country. Though I am fascinated to know how a few million more unskilled and unqualified immigrants to the UK would help with the economy. Please enlighten me further.
Immigrants, like it or not are wealth creators. More tax revenues, more entrepreneurs etc Are immigrants responsible for a system of schooling that was failing in the all British grey and hopeless fifties. Our school systems were failing long before mass immigration. Many immigrants are skilled and qualified, the NHS has greatly been enriched and kept going by the work of skilled immigrants, to say otherwise is really is a broad and ignorant sweeping judgement.
Quote: Tursiops @ December 11 2012, 5:59 PM GMTHang on, are you saying it is a good thing that immigration is a good thing or not? You can't hail the benefits then shrug your shoulders when the downside is pointed out.
I was talking about fair wages for all, both immigrants and others, you were talking about a system I would support, but one that doesn't exist and is not likely to exist. I am all in favour of the redistribution of wealth for everyone, immigrant or not.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 11 2012, 4:14 PM GMTIt is not the skin colour I am concerned about, it is the sheer numbers along with cultural and religious practices that are contradictory to the 'British' way of life.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 11 2012, 3:54 PM GMTOnly another 31% to go and whitey is a minority.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 11 2012, 5:48 PM GMTQuoting what happened in the past with regards to immigration is a bit of a misleading argument.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 11 2012, 5:21 PM GMTEnoch Powell was freaking out that 50,000 immigrants a year from the Commonwealth were coming to Britain.
All within the space a couple of hours. You do talk self-defeating shite RCP. And you honestly believe your "forthrightness" is all that's preventing the rise of the BNP and the outbreak of race wars? Wacky stuff.
Quote: Pingl @ December 11 2012, 6:04 PM GMT...a system of schooling that was failing in the all British grey and hopeless fifties...
Is that accurate?
(Genuinley don't know)
It would be interesting to know who we'd be 'better off'(callous, I know) without, the lowest contibuting 2 million immigrants or the lowest contributing 2 million indigenous whites???
Again, no agenda - would genuinley like to know.
Quote: Pingl @ December 11 2012, 6:02 PM GMTImmigrants, like it or not are wealth creaters.
It's not a case of liking it or not, it's actually adding up the costs of mass immigration and according to every calculation I've seen, we are worse off after paying benefits, translation services, extra school places, strain on the NHS, legal fees, crime, social housing, etc.
As for foreign qualifications, most aren't recognised in the UK, Europe or the USA. A medical degree from a corrupt nation, such as Zimbabwe isn't recognised because the accreditation is usually based on a bribe. Similarly, there are different standards with electrics, plumbing, social care, etc. on an international level.
However, employers do love to exploit people and pay them next to nothing, so mass immigration will stay as long as we have a Government being told that it's good for business.
Quote: Frantically @ December 11 2012, 6:06 PM GMTAll within the space a couple of hours. You do talk self-defeating shite RCP. And you honestly believe your "forthrightness" is all that's preventing the rise of the BNP and the outbreak of race wars? Wacky stuff.
Someone taking the Gordon Brown approach instead of actually looking at the facts, figures and statistics.
I'm not interested in your idealogical stance or liberal leanings, come up with something concrete and I'll take you seriously.
Otherwise, you are just talking 'shite'.
Quote: Pingl @ December 11 2012, 6:04 PM GMTI was talking about fair wages for all, both immigrants and others, you were talking about a system I would support, but one that doesn't exist and is not likely to exist. I am all in favour of the redistribution of wealth for everyone, immigrant or not.
No I was talking about the society in which we live, in which redistribution of wealth depends on the availability of labour. A surplus of labour keeps wages low; historically when demand for labour has been high there has been a shift in wealth from the top to the bottom. The best thing that ever happened to the working classes in this country was the Black Death, which by increasing the economic power of the remaining peasantry effectively put an end to the feudal system.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 11 2012, 6:12 PM GMTIt's not a case of liking it or not, it's actually adding up the costs of mass immigration and according to every calculation I've seen, we are worse off after paying benefits, translation services, extra school places, strain on the NHS, legal fees, crime, social housing, etc.
As for foreign qualifications, most aren't recognised in the UK, Europe or the USA. A medical degree from a corrupt nation, such as Zimbabwe isn't recognised because the accreditation is usually based on a bribe. Similarly, there are different standards with electrics, plumbing, social care, etc. on an international level.
However, employers do love to exploit people and pay them next to nothing, so mass immigration will stay as long as we have a Government being told that it's good for business.
Oh this is ridiculous, you know as well as I do the NHS would have collapsed without foreign doctors and nurses. Lets not have any of these highly qualified immigrants with their silly joke qualifications. If by read you mean the Daily Mail and the BNP weekly I'm not surprised. Based on a bribe, that is bloody stupid, and you know it RC
Quote: Tursiops @ December 11 2012, 6:16 PM GMTNo I was talking about the society in which we live, in which redistribution of wealth depends on the availability of labour. A surplus of labour keeps wages low; historically when demand for labour has been high there has been a shift in wealth from the top to the bottom. The best thing that ever happened to the working classes in this country was the Black Death, which by increasing the economic power of the remaining peasantry effectively put an end to the feudal system.
That is a pretty narrow view of wealth redistribution, there are other methods. Quoting a true fact from the middle ages doesn't really equate to modern Britain, but you never know we are due some bird flue. This is a capitalist society, run on capitalist lines, pay the poor as little as you can and make the wealthy richer. I don't like it, but there you go.
Quote: Pingl @ December 11 2012, 6:16 PM GMTBased on a bribe, that is bloody stupid, and you know it RC
It's not stupid, it's employment law. A lot of foreign qualifications aren't recognised by UK employers and institutions. You can call me stupid, but you'd be wrong (and somewhat hurtful).
Quote: Pingl @ December 11 2012, 6:20 PM GMTOh this is ridiculous, you know as well as I do the NHS would have collapsed without foreign doctors and nurses.
The extra foreign doctors and nurses are caring for the extra 7.5 million foreign patients. It's a circular argument.
Quote: Lazzard @ December 11 2012, 6:12 PM GMTIs that accurate?
(Genuinley don't know)It would be interesting to know who we'd be 'better off'(callous, I know) without, the lowest contibuting 2 million immigrants or the lowest contributing 2 million indigenous whites???
Again, no agenda - would genuinley like to know.
Interestingly I was listening to a talk by Shirley Williams today. After the Butler Act of 1944 schooling did improve for a short period, but because it was neither fish nor foul and a truly comprehensive system was never adopted, the system never worked. It held such contradictrions in its very makeup as to be unworkable. Money could still buy you a better education leading to the ghettoisation of some areas of learning and the eventual collapse of the comprehensive system.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 11 2012, 6:22 PM GMTIt's not stupid, it's employment law. A lot of foreign qualifications aren't recognised by UK employers and institutions. You can call me stupid, but you'd be wrong (and somewhat hurtful).
The extra foreign doctors and nurses are caring for the extra 7.5 million foreign patients. It's a circular argument.
RC to say bribe is daft, just because they are not recognised in the UK does not negate them. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings by the way 
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 11 2012, 6:14 PM GMTI'm not interested in your idealogical stance or liberal leanings, come up with something concrete and I'll take you seriously.
A glittering prize indeed - to be taken seriously by a rabid rightwing mouthpiece!
I think I'll pass. Please carry on with your internet rant.
Quote: Frantically @ December 11 2012, 6:42 PM GMTa rabid rightwing mouthpiece!
Eh? I am warning about the rise of extreme right wing parties due to a lack of action on mass immigration in Europe. Why would I warn people of that if I was a rabid right wing mouthpiece?
