One for movie-buffs, really.
Can you think of any film examples where someone is flashing-back, yet within that flashback we see scenes where he wasn't present.
Written down I seem to be getting away with it - but the logic is worrying me.
If I knew it has been done before - with some degree of sucess - I'd feel a lot more relaxed.
All thoughts welcome.
That's a tough one.
If your flashback is somebody remembering something, then the logic will make make people go all cross-eyed, as he couldn't possibly know the stuff he didn't see.
Two people having flashbacks (though not necessarily at the same time) might work, i.e. Character A has a flashback of an event, then Character B has a flashback referencing that event from a different POV.
I think Lost did what you're intending sometimes in flashbacks where it would turn to the POV of The Others, unseen by the flashbacking character.
But the way they did it was through two timelines in an episode instead of just a recollection flashback.
Would it depend on how long the section is? If you have one flashback then that would be from particular pov but you could then segue into 'things what happened in past'. I think. You're right, it does seem significantly more sensible written down!
Think about detective/mystery shows when they flash back to events leading up to the present.
It's a good question. Tarantino movies come to mind - at least in the way scenes are not necessarily chronological, and don't contain the characters from the previous scene(s). I think as long as you ground the audience as quickly as possible when you flashback, i.e. make a quick and logical link into the overall story, you should be okay,. I am sure there are movies that flashback in the way you describe.... let me think......
Well, there's 'Sunset Boulevard' and 'Shallow Grave'. All told in flashback and I'm pretty sure both had scenes where the narrator wasn't in them....oh yeah - and they were dead 
.
I don't think flashback always has to be the narrator's POV. I'm sure it can also be used to show scenes the narrator may know about even if they weren't there.
If it's supposed to be a specific characters flashback, of thier experiences, then no, you can't show stuff they weren't present for. That would just be bad writing, surely, even if it has been done before.
Thanks for all replies.
'Sunset Boulevard' is worth watching again - although the supernatural element does allow for some rule-breaking.
I'll check out 'Shallow Grave'
The timeline is all over the shop (on purpose!) in this story - so I guess I have a bit of licence.
It's also about a guy who has 'flashbacks' in a PTSD sense, as well, which will have a different tone - which complicates matters!
Is it a comedy? Because if it is you can get away with pretty much anything so long as the audience is laughing.
Quote: David Bussell @ November 22 2012, 9:51 AM GMTIs it a comedy? Because if it is you can get away with pretty much anything so long as the audience is laughing.
Historical not hysterical, sadly.
Quote: Lazzard @ November 22 2012, 10:37 AM GMTHistorical not hysterical, sadly.
Easy fix - turn it into a comedy by having your characters continually falling on their arses - that way you can do whatever you like in your flashbacks. I'll PM you with my BACS.
I don't think it's something you need to worry about. The beginning of 2001 comes to mind. None of the apes stuck around for the rest of the film!
In Godfather 2 the Robert De Niro scenes are flashbacks of a character who is dead in the "present" of the film.
As Bussell says, if it's good and it works then don't worry too much if other films have done it. Mind you, do you need the flashback? Could you get away without having it?
Quote: David Bussell @ November 22 2012, 11:40 AM GMTEasy fix - turn it into a comedy by having your characters continually falling on their arses - that way you can do whatever you like in your flashbacks. I'll PM you with my BACS.
Good call - though the death-camp scenes might be tricky to pull off.
Worth a try though.
Thanks!
Cheques in the post.
Quote: evan rubivellian @ November 22 2012, 12:41 PM GMTCould you get away without having it?
It's 80% of the film!
Do you remember when this thread started?
*Harp plays & thread goes all wibbly
Quote: Lazzard @ November 21 2012, 4:14 PM GMTOne for movie-buffs, really.
Can you think of any film examples where someone is flashing-back, yet within that flashback we see scenes where he wasn't present.
Written down I seem to be getting away with it - but the logic is worrying me.
If I knew it has been done before - with some degree of sucess - I'd feel a lot more relaxed.
All thoughts welcome.
You can do what you want with chronology provided there's some sort of reasoning behind it (even if that's "I want you to be as confused as the protagonist with missing memory" as in Memento). You can show all sorts of things a character wouldn't have remembered, known or guessed in a flashback related to them. The only hard and fast rule is that these parts of the flashback can't affect their actions in the present time (Unless the flashback is video footage they're watching, I guess....)
If flashbacks linked to memories were restricted to the logic of accurate human memory they'd all be character POV shots. They're usually not.
Assuming, as you hint, it's not the PTSD scenes (which a decent director will make look visually different anyway) is there any reason why the script reader or audience will perceive the flashback as being someone flashing back rather than simply an expository shift in timeline that develops the plot? If it's the protagonist describing [their reactions to] an event that cues the flashback, then treat the parts they don't remember as a separate segment...
if it's something they don't remember but will still think of you can even introduce that part of the flashback using the same technique (eg by voiceover or intercutting back to them in the present) with them speculating, explaining or lying about what they didn't witness.
Or if it's a different character that knows that part, [inter]cut to them.
Or use crawling titles and/or a very obvious transition to separate the parts the protagonist didn't witness.
Or if it's the same continuous scene show the memory part from the character POV and then repeat [part of] it from a revealingly different angle before adding in the additional detail.