Some good advice in MJ's latest post, specifically in the 'How long should a scene be?' section: http://michealjacob.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/some-faqs-first-in-an-occasional-series/
Dan
Micheal Jacob Blog
Thank you Dan.
Yes - very good - everyone starting out should read this.
"Late in , early out" is one of the single most useful mantras of script/screenwriting.
This is really helpful article - Just one question though - How many wrylies can one use in a script without being accused of giving the actor too much direction? I know some of them love to personalise the character?
Thanks
Quote: simon carlton @ November 3 2012, 12:37 PM GMTThis is really helpful article - Just one question though - How many wrylies can one use in a script without being accused of giving the actor too much direction? I know some of them love to personalise the character?
Thanks
The actor's job is to deliver the lines as you want them delivered, although they can sometimes give you things you hadn't thought of, and are a pleasant surprise.
Attitude should be clear in your dialogue, but if it isn't (as in the example in my blog), it's permissible to indicate what you want.
Thank you for reading the blog.
I've seen pro actors at work and they're usually savvy enough to get what's required from your script. I'm sure Micheal will agree that it's a beautiful sight to see top actors bringing your scrip to life. Mind you, it can start to grate after 17 takes...
Good summarising blog Michael. If this the place where we go into points in more depth then I'd like to bring up scene length, because, I feel, anyone reading all the general sitcom rule guidelines (all fairly similar) will feel they MUST always cut down on scene length, making them short and fluid at all costs, whereas I think personally, if you have good ideas for long scenes then you'd be a fool not to use them.
Several of my favourite classic sitcom scenes are long ones, - The classic stuck on a clocktower in Dad's Army, and the earlier new staff car scene, are both at least half the episode in length, as is Bottom's stuck on a ferris wheel. Dad's Army has a lot of long scenes I think, it's an all time classic sitcom, yet it would never've got made if all producers followed the same general rule writing guidelines that sitcom writers are asked to follow!
It's not just the odd sitcom like DA tho, a lot of top sitcoms have many long scenes and personally I think the guideline writers are wrong in insisting they all be short. I say do what you think suits your sitcom.
I think the advice is the same Alfred. The scene should be as long as it needs to be depending on the narrative within it.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ November 4 2012, 8:14 AM GMTGood summarising blog Michael. If this the place where we go into points in more depth then I'd like to bring up scene length, because, I feel, anyone reading all the general sitcom rule guidelines (all fairly similar) will feel they MUST always cut down on scene length, making them short and fluid at all costs, whereas I think personally, if you have good ideas for long scenes then you'd be a fool not to use them.
Several of my favourite classic sitcom scenes are long ones, - The classic stuck on a clocktower in Dad's Army, and the earlier new staff car scene, are both at least half the episode in length, as is Bottom's stuck on a ferris wheel. Dad's Army has a lot of long scenes I think, it's an all time classic sitcom, yet it would never've got made if all producers followed the same general rule writing guidelines that sitcom writers are asked to follow!
It's not just the odd sitcom like DA tho, a lot of top sitcoms have many long scenes and personally I think the guideline writers are wrong in insisting they all be short. I say do what you think suits your sitcom.
Absolutely with you on the perils of slavishly following 'rules'.
But one of the biggest newbie crimes is long, long scenes of ping-pong dialogue that doesn't really get anybody anywhere - Critique is full of them.
It's about every word earning it's place.
Interestingly, at least two of the examples you quote are where the whole point of the 'scene' is about being stuck, having to while away the time.
What could be more appropriate than a long scene?
The same with all the famous 'two-hander' episodes - the 'stuckness' is perfectly captured by the long scene.
The other thing is not to confuse location with scene.
I would argue that there are several scenes in the Belltower DA episode - just all in the same location.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ November 4 2012, 8:14 AM GMTGood summarising blog Michael. If this the place where we go into points in more depth then I'd like to bring up scene length, because, I feel, anyone reading all the general sitcom rule guidelines (all fairly similar) will feel they MUST always cut down on scene length, making them short and fluid at all costs, whereas I think personally, if you have good ideas for long scenes then you'd be a fool not to use them.
Several of my favourite classic sitcom scenes are long ones, - The classic stuck on a clocktower in Dad's Army, and the earlier new staff car scene, are both at least half the episode in length, as is Bottom's stuck on a ferris wheel. Dad's Army has a lot of long scenes I think, it's an all time classic sitcom, yet it would never've got made if all producers followed the same general rule writing guidelines that sitcom writers are asked to follow!
It's not just the odd sitcom like DA tho, a lot of top sitcoms have many long scenes and personally I think the guideline writers are wrong in insisting they all be short. I say do what you think suits your sitcom.
I'd rather go into depth on the blog rather than here, but since you raise it, scenes should be as long as is necessary to advance the story. When I worked on Birds of a Feather, the scene count varied between 13 and 15 per episode. Now there can be 22 or 23 scenes in an audience sitcom, so changing times and audience expectations affect how comedy is written and produced. However long the scene is, the key thing is to structure it.
Yes, the narrative within the scene becomes the functioning factor. As long as that moves roughly from A to B to C etc. then long scenes in sitcoms should be encouraged, imo.
I have a couple of guide books and read most of the on line guidelines like Michael's, and they tend to make you feel 'I mustn't dwell too long on one scene' whereas my scripts all have several longish scenes, as you might imagine from my longish posts.
I think there are many definite DOs and DON'Ts in scriptwriting, as Michael's blog says, but I've never thought scene length is a definite, I believe scene length is a choice for the writer, or even for the writer's characters and situations. Personally I'm always looking for the chance to put that long scene in. But please bear in mind none of my TV scripts have been produced, yet, he says hopefully.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ November 4 2012, 10:34 AM GMTYes, the narrative within the scene becomes the functioning factor. As long as that moves roughly from A to B to C etc. then long scenes in sitcoms should be encouraged, imo.
I have a couple of guide books and read most of the on line guidelines like Michael's, and they tend to make you feel 'I mustn't dwell too long on one scene' whereas my scripts all have several longish scenes, as you might imagine from my longish posts.
I think there are many definite DOs and DON'Ts in scriptwriting, as Michael's blog says, but I've never thought scene length is a definite, I believe scene length is a choice for the writer, or even for the writer's characters and situations. Personally I'm always looking for the chance to put that long scene in. But please bear in mind none of my TV scripts have been produced, yet, he says hopefully.
Best of luck Alfred. As Lazzard says, it's all to do with keeping the story moving rather than stopping to admire the wonderful sunset and having a discussion about what to have for dinner.
Quote: Micheal Jacob @ November 4 2012, 10:47 AM GMTBest of luck Alfred. As Lazzard says, it's all to do with keeping the story moving rather than stopping to admire the wonderful sunset and having a discussion about what to have for dinner.
Well you say that Micheal, but I really enjoyed 'The Trip'! 
Quote: Lazzard @ November 4 2012, 10:05 AM GMTAbsolutely with you on the perils of slavishly following 'rules'.
But one of the biggest newbie crimes is long, long scenes of ping-pong dialogue that doesn't really get anybody anywhere - Critique is full of them.
Yes I use them myself, but willfully, after enjoying several sitcoms that did it - Rising Damp, Citizen Smith, Home To Roost, Never The Twain, As Time Goes By, Shelley, Birds Of A Feather all iirc had longish bouts of verbal pingpong in most episodes.
But it was well written pingpong dialogue. So it becomes often the main funtion of the sitcom, and there's a market for it, lots of viewers like this, and it has a strong heritage in the theatre. You don't see as much of it now, but I like the odd wordy Ayckbourney or Fraynesque TV sitcom myself.
But yeah, it's probably not right to encourage new writers to do it, unless they have a stagey type two hander as their sitcom idea.
Quote: Marc P @ November 4 2012, 11:04 AM GMTWell you say that Micheal, but I really enjoyed 'The Trip'!
Ho ho ho.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ November 4 2012, 11:25 AM GMTYes I use them myself, but willfully, after enjoying several sitcoms that did it - Rising Damp, Citizen Smith, Home To Roost, Never The Twain, As Time Goes By, Shelley, Birds Of A Feather all iirc had longish bouts of verbal pingpong in most episodes.
But it was well written pingpong dialogue. So it becomes often the main funtion of the sitcom, and there's a market for it, lots of viewers like this, and it has a strong heritage in the theatre. You don't see as much of it now, but I like the odd wordy Ayckbourney or Fraynesque TV sitcom myself.
But yeah, it's probably not right to encourage new writers to do it, unless they have a stagey type two hander as their sitcom idea.
If it's pingpong dialogue with a point, that's fine. If it's trading gags for the sake of it, that isn't.