Quote: Renegade Carpark @ August 23 2012, 1:03 PM BSTNope, we only murder one. Only a single sperm can enter the ovum. But your argument does hold water with the Catholic church who have made both masturbating and condoms a sin for that very reason.
The day we seek moral guidelines from the Catholic Church is the day we're all in trouble.
Quote: zooo @ August 23 2012, 1:04 PM BSTEvery sperm is a potential unborn child though.
Men are such callous murderers.
That or we're freeing them to enjoy a few seconds of glorious freedom, rather than just getting reabsorbed by ones testes.
I mean Zooo they have too go somewhere, or like guys would explode.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ August 23 2012, 12:56 PM BSTNo, that is a crime but not the crime. But this does back up my argument about people playing favourites when it comes to murder.
In your justification, it is perfectly acceptable for women to murder their own unborn children but for no one else to do it? That seems a very flimsy premise.
How about if the father of the foetus wanted to get rid of the cells? Would that be a crime? After all, it's 50% his. Or are there some 'moral' double standards involved?
Again, from the death penalty to assisted suicide to abortion, you cannot justify one and deny the others based on your 'personal preferences'.
Abortion isn't a crime.
'Murder' does not mean the same as 'ending a life'
Abortion is an issue related to the control a person has over their own body, so yes, it is ok for a woman to elect to have an abortion, no, it is not ok for someone else to force her to have an abortion.
It isn't about 'personal preferences', it's about the differences between the cases.
RC, if you keep pretending to be an idiot just because you like arguing, people will think you are an idiot.
Quote: sootyj @ August 23 2012, 12:59 PM BSTthe RCP wind up machine kicking into life.
Nice try. If truth be known, I have a mixed stance on abortion, sometimes it's necessary to spare future suffering for both parent and child. But obviously, I'd never have one.
The point I'm trying to make and keep re-iterating, is that intellectualising murder to suit a particular legal or intellectual argument is wrong. It is super wrong. It is a human life and if you're going to end it - either prematurely or in the heat of revenge filled lust, then you better be damn sure you're doing the right thing.
Dear God have you actually managed to convince yourself your serious?
Thats like when Cameron convinced himself he had a soul.
Then I hope you're taking my sperm murder seriously. And feeling suitably guilty every time you kill all those poor innocent children.
Quote: sootyj @ August 23 2012, 1:06 PM BSTI mean Zooo they have too go somewhere, or like guys would explode.
Actually they die after a couple of months.
Millions of lives cruelly wasted.
it's like having Auschwitz in your underpants.
(Is that a Godwin???)
That's rather more than a Godwin.
Frankly I'm a little stunned.
Quote: Harridan @ August 23 2012, 1:07 PM BSTAbortion is an issue related to the control a person has over their own body, so yes, it is ok for a woman to elect to have an abortion, no, it is not ok for someone else to force her to have an abortion.
That is one opinion, and it is an opinion because you have not only discounted the life of the foetus, but also that 50% of the genetic material doesn't belong to her.
Your justification for women murdering their unborn children is not ok. There are justifications for abortion, but simply saying you are a woman and have a right to them shouldn't be one.
Posession is 90% of the law.
Quote: sootyj @ August 23 2012, 1:09 PM BSTDear God have you actually managed to convince yourself your serious?
Sorry, I will try and take legalised murder in the jocular vein in which it was intended.
Apologies.
The absurdity of the argument was getting to me.
No excuses, though.
I'm kidding.
As is Renegade. Even if he won't admit it.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ August 23 2012, 1:15 PM BSTThat is one opinion, and it is an opinion because you have not only discounted the life of the foetus, but also that 50% of the genetic material doesn't belong to her.
Your justification for women murdering their unborn children is not ok. There are justifications for abortion, but simply saying you are a woman and have a right to them shouldn't be one.
Will you stop saying 'murdering' like a great big stupid american pro-lifer from the westboro church? It would help if you actually want to be taken seriously.
Until it's possible for a child to be born without the mother's body being put under life-threatening stress, the woman gets to choose.
It certainly gets VERY muddy if the man who supplied the sperm does want the baby to be born, and the woman doesn't. But aside from that issue, this conversation is getting too silly for me to want to take part in it. Good luck!
