Red Dwarf X Page 6

I recently bought the "Just The Shows" box set, and now I'm in the middle of series three, still enjoying it. But I have two questions. Kryten was introduced in S2E1 and never reappeared in that series again. But in S3 he's suddenly one of the main characters. Secondly, the avatar (?) of the ship's computer was a bloke called "Holly" in the first two series...in the 3rd series it's a woman (she appeared for the first time in the episode where Kryten was introduced). Did the writers give explanations for these changes and did I only missed it...or was that "lazy writing"?
(Sorry for my bad English, I normally speak german!)

Then I have another question which is (even more) off topic. In my "Only Fools and Horses" Christmas Specials box set the long episode "Miami Twice" is billed as "The Movie". Was it a cinema movie or just a long (two part) television special???

I think Kryten went off exploring space on his own and then the Red Dwarf crew found him smashed up somewhere. I think it's explained at the start of series 3.

Quote: Ben @ August 5 2012, 12:08 PM BST

I think Kryten went off exploring space on his own and then the Red Dwarf crew found him smashed up somewhere. I think it's explained at the start of series 3.

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I think he'd driven his space bike into an asteroid.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ August 5 2012, 1:04 PM BST

I think he'd driven his space bike into an asteroid.

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Thank you Ben and Matthew for your answers concerning the Red Dwarf questions,
after getting a huge kick in the bollocks by watching the final of the olympic tennis tournament, with your British Andy Murray thrashing my fellow swiss Roger Federer, I was able to check the beginning of S3E1...and you're right. Kryten's reappearance is explained in the Star Wars spoof at the beginning...although I was only able to read it by freeze-framing it; it also eplains why Holly is suddenly a woman...but still I think it's a bit lazy writing camouflaged as a joke.

Thank you Nil for aswering my OFAH question

I have deep reservations about Red Dwarf X but it is encouraging to hear that an effort has been made to make it like series 1-6. From seeing the teaser there is another positive no-one has mentioned: NO FUCKING KOCHANSKI!!! Maybe I'm being unfair but I've always associated the decline of Red Dwarf with her introduction. I know BTE omitted her as well but I feared she would be brought back for this series. The rot started in series 7 for me. Ironically the move away from bleak, dark, apocalyptic sci-fi in an effort to make it funnier had the opposite effect and merely succeeded in making it irritating. There was a great sense of gallows humour about 1-6 that was lost in the later ones and the brilliant, twisting 30-minute stories were thrown aside in favour of a more conventional sitcom approach. This seemed to me to be a betrayal of what Red Dwarf stood for and it has never recovered. I really hope lessons have been learned for the new series but I'm not holding my breath.

Quote: TBone @ August 5 2012, 9:13 PM BST

I have deep reservations about Red Dwarf X but it is encouraging to hear that an effort has been made to make it like series 1-6. From seeing the teaser there is another positive no-one has mentioned: NO FUCKING KOCHANSKI!!! Maybe I'm being unfair but I've always associated the decline of Red Dwarf with her introduction. I know BTE omitted her as well but I feared she would be brought back for this series. The rot started in series 7 for me. Ironically the move away from bleak, dark, apocalyptic sci-fi in an effort to make it funnier had the opposite effect and merely succeeded in making it irritating. There was a great sense of gallows humour about 1-6 that was lost in the later ones and the brilliant, twisting 30-minute stories were thrown aside in favour of a more conventional sitcom approach. This seemed to me to be a betrayal of what Red Dwarf stood for and it has never recovered. I really hope lessons have been learned for the new series but I'm not holding my breath.

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I don't think the show can be saved by ommitting kochanski or by going back to the "old style". I think the changes you critisise were made because all opportunities were taken and every possible funny situation and conflict given by the initial premise (four guys who don't like each other trapped in a spaceship) were explored. You either stop or you have to introduce new characters and new premises to go on without repeating yourself...but then you have to f**k with the old premise which everybody has getting used to and grew to love.
There are hundreds of examples where the creators tempered with the old formula to keep the show fresh and went from (arguably) bad to worse. I think, when a show has run its course (and the creators and the fans alike should be honest in this regard) it should stop and the writers shouldn't experiment with trying a "new style" and then going back to "the old style". But on the other hand...when a show I like goes on I can't help but curiously watching it although I knew better.

I have the same mixed feelings as the original poster. I just loved Red Dwarf but when the collaboration between Rob Grant and Doug Naylor ended, the well-developed characters ended. Looking at Kryten doing the cam thing in the showers. Was just watching Series V the other night when Rimmer proposed to work on board the Holoship and Kryten says, "where you would be obliged to have sex with beautiful, brilliant women twice daily. Am I the only one who thinks that's just a little bit tacky?" - Someone who utters these sentiments would be the last guy to take a cam into a ladies' shower.

No, I didn't like Kochanski, either... but she was a symptom of the problem (one writer on his own) rather than the problem itself. If the series is to be written by only one of the writing team (I'm not one of those folks who says that one of the writers is better than the other; it was the synergy between the two that made such a fearsome twosome), it's doomed to be mediocre at best and just plain bad at best. All the development the characters had made over time (Lister using his brain, Rimmer actually semi-human and caring about someone other than himself, etc.) had gone out the window. It wasn't fun anymore.

I'd rather re-watch the first episodes written by both Rob Grant and Doug Naylor again and again and again than watch any of the solo episodes.

Quote: Samantha Feinglass @ August 6 2012, 5:57 PM BST

I have the same mixed feelings as the original poster. I just loved Red Dwarf but when the collaboration between Rob Grant and Doug Naylor ended, the well-developed characters ended. Looking at Kryten doing the cam thing in the showers. Was just watching Series V the other night when Rimmer proposed to work on board the Holoship and Kryten says, "where you would be obliged to have sex with beautiful, brilliant women twice daily. Am I the only one who thinks that's just a little bit tacky?" - Someone who utters these sentiments would be the last guy to take a cam into a ladies' shower.

No, I didn't like Kochanski, either... but she was a symptom of the problem (one writer on his own) rather than the problem itself. If the series is to be written by only one of the writing team (I'm not one of those folks who says that one of the writers is better than the other; it was the synergy between the two that made such a fearsome twosome), it's doomed to be mediocre at best and just plain bad at best. All the development the characters had made over time (Lister using his brain, Rimmer actually semi-human and caring about someone other than himself, etc.) had gone out the window. It wasn't fun anymore.

I'd rather re-watch the first episodes written by both Rob Grant and Doug Naylor again and again and again than watch any of the solo episodes.

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I agree totally with the character development let-down. At the end of 6, when Rimmer saves the day I thought that when they continued Red Dwarf, there would be an acknowledgment of his heroism and the story would take a different turn, leading to a conclusion where the crew mates have a new found respect for each other, culminating in them getting back to Earth or something. I think this would be a fitting end to the story with Rimmer overcoming his demons and becoming more like Ace, Lister returning home and pursuing his dream of a farm on Fiji with Kochanski, Kryten removing his mechanoid shackles completely and enjoying a human like existence and the Cat, well, finally "getting his end away". Series 7 seemed to disregard the emotive nature of series 6's conclusion and explained it away quickly at the start of the first episode. The episodes got gradually worse and became sillier and sillier. I also thought that considering that Lister had been pining for Kochanski for so long, he would be more affected by her return. Also, in the first episode of series 1, Kochanski seemed to like Lister a lot, there was a geniune mutual affection there, Lister having already had a relationship with her. This didn't seem to be the case in series 7, where Kochanski regarded Lister as an uncooth slob. The whole thing seemed to lack credibility and continuity considering what had gone before.

Quote: TBone @ August 7 2012, 8:23 AM BST

I agree totally with the character development let-down. At the end of 6, when Rimmer saves the day I thought that when they continued Red Dwarf, there would be an acknowledgment of his heroism and the story would take a different turn, leading to a conclusion where the crew mates have a new found respect for each other...

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I think that wouldn't happen. It wouldn't matter how many times Rimmer saves Lister's life or vice versa (if that were possible) they live with each other and get fed up with each other. Anything else wouldn't fit in with the characters.

Quote: Samantha Feinglass @ August 6 2012, 5:57 PM BST

I have the same mixed feelings as the original poster. I just loved Red Dwarf but when the collaboration between Rob Grant and Doug Naylor ended, the well-developed characters ended. Looking at Kryten doing the cam thing in the showers. Was just watching Series V the other night when Rimmer proposed to work on board the Holoship and Kryten says, "where you would be obliged to have sex with beautiful, brilliant women twice daily. Am I the only one who thinks that's just a little bit tacky?" - Someone who utters these sentiments would be the last guy to take a cam into a ladies' shower.

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I seem to remember the other prisoners knocked Kryten out and re-programmed him.

Quote: TBone @ August 7 2012, 8:23 AM BST

Also, in the first episode of series 1, Kochanski seemed to like Lister a lot, there was a geniune mutual affection there, Lister having already had a relationship with her. This didn't seem to be the case in series 7, where Kochanski regarded Lister as an uncooth slob. The whole thing seemed to lack credibility and continuity considering what had gone before.

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She was from a different dimension where her Lister was more sophisticated, that's why she wasn't impressed with this Lister.

Red Dwarf does have MASSIVE gaping plot holes though, but this has been from the start. Watch the first couple of series and count the number of things that don't add up now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3rbaGzD-F0

Quote: Nil Putters @ August 24 2012, 1:23 PM BST

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3rbaGzD-F0

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Thanks for the clip. I'm very curious about the new series. I'm not from Britain and so I don't have the channel DAVE (what a strange name for a channel!!!). I most probably have to wait until the suckers release the series on DVD.

From Rob Llewellyn's blog back in April:
"The series starts this Autumn on Dave in the UK, it will also be on Netflix, Love Film (UK) iTunes and loads of PBS stations in North America. "
so you could probably watch it on one of them.

I'm sure the DVD/Blu-ray will be out pretty sharpish after broadcast. I think Back To Earth was out within two months of the first broadcast.

Dan