Quote: DaButt @ July 18 2012, 12:03 AM BSTI assume when you say 'screwing someone' you mean breaking the law.
It is possible to screw someone without breaking the law. Particularly if you are able to buy off the law a makers, which was big business does all the time.
Quote: DaButt @ July 17 2012, 11:22 PM BSTYou can't fault a company for trying to make money -- we're all trying to do the same thing.
Hey, I have no problem with healthy, responsible capitalism, but these corporations are breaking the law, stifling the growth of small companies and using illegal dirty tricks to put others out of business. That is anti-capitalism.
The weird thing is - if someone was 'trying to make money' by mugging you in the street, you'd have no problem shooting them dead, but you seem to be quite nonchalant about big corporations stealing your cash wholesale.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ July 18 2012, 1:04 PM BSTHey, I have no problem with healthy, responsible capitalism, but these corporations are breaking the law, stifling the growth of small companies and using illegal dirty tricks to put others out of business. That is anti-capitalism.
The weird thing is - if someone was 'trying to make money' by mugging you in the street, you'd have no problem shooting them dead, but you seem to be quite nonchalant about big corporations stealing your cash wholesale.
And I am so bone wearily, mind numbingly, sould destroyedly, utterly and totally sick and tired of being told. Ooh a parliamentary commitee had a go at them. There was an enquiry!
Being told to sit in a comfy chair and told you've been a naughty boy.
Is not a punishment.
You robbed a bank, raped a post box ate a granny.
You bad man, you bad, terrible smelly bum man.
You sit there whilst Keith Vaz tuts at you.
Then go home and cry yourself to sleep on your great big pile of money.
I want to see F**kles get a proper shoeing. I want to see Eric Pickles and Ed Balls throw him on the ground and give him a sound beating that leaves him in casulaty. Then Theresa May go round and shit on his door step.
Or better still he goes to prison. Or have to pay an actual fine from his actual money.
Quote: Tursiops @ July 18 2012, 8:48 AM BSTParticularly if you are able to buy off the law a makers, which was big business does all the time.
That is precisely the point I've been making and complaining about while discussing this subject.
Quote: sootyj @ July 18 2012, 1:52 PM BSTAnd I am so bone wearily, mind numbingly, sould destroyedly, utterly and totally sick and tired of being told.
Binky Huckaback lives !
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ July 18 2012, 1:04 PM BSTthese corporations are breaking the law, stifling the growth of small companies and using illegal dirty tricks
See above.
The weird thing is - if someone was 'trying to make money' by mugging you in the street, you'd have no problem shooting them dead, but you seem to be quite nonchalant about big corporations stealing your cash wholesale.
Please describe in detail how my money has been stolen. Bonus points if you can prove that it's cost me more than the government has wasted/overspent.
Quote: DaButt @ July 18 2012, 2:18 PM BSTPlease describe in detail how my money has been stolen. Bonus points if you can prove that it's cost me more than the government has wasted/overspent.
Let's start with your tax money going to bail out the banks and mortgage companies, move quickly forwards to the cost of cleaning up the various oil spills and other environmental disasters, add to that the cost of treating all of the victims of illegal toxic dumping, unresearched drugs and poisonous crop sprays and building materials.
We can also look up how much you are paying for your health insurance, then include them with the cartels illeagally overcharging for your energy, petrol, interest rates, household commodities, mobile communications, computer software and even how much you pay for cheese.
Then we can factor in the cost of failed infrastructure projects, class action law suits, Senate committees, the private sector overcharging the government for every product and service, the various Medicare scams, corporate bailouts for failing industries, moving jobs from US soil to abroad, your tax money bailing out shareholders and wholesale tax avoidance on an industrial scale.
That's not even factoring in the environmental, social and health problems that these corporations excel at. Each evil action rippling out into your community and causing problems which you end up paying for.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ July 18 2012, 2:45 PM BSTLet's start with your tax money going to bail out the banks and mortgage companies
Irresponsible and unsustainable government spending, much of it due to government policy and failures in the first place.
move quickly forwards to the cost of cleaning up the various oil spills
The cleanup was paid for by BP and the other parties involved. I believe they are required by law to maintain large amounts of cash to pay for potential damages. (That's a good example to follow for other corporations involved in huge government contracts.)
add to that the cost of treating all of the victims of illegal toxic dumping, unresearched drugs and poisonous crop sprays and building materials.
I think you'll find that they are very well researched and regulated and that any damages are paid for by the corporation.
We can also look up how much you are paying for your health insurance
Less than $100 per month. I can expect that to rise substantially (10x, maybe?) no that our president has made it a legal obligation that we all hand our money over to the insurance companies.
then include them with the cartels illeagally overcharging for your energy, petrol, interest rates, household commodities, mobile communications, computer software and even how much you pay for cheese.
Now you're just being silly.
Then we can factor in the cost of failed infrastructure projects, class action law suits, Senate committees, the private sector overcharging the government for every product and service, the various Medicare scams, corporate bailouts for failing industries, moving jobs from US soil to abroad, your tax money bailing out shareholders and wholesale tax avoidance on an industrial scale.
Most of that sounds like the results of poor government policy.[/quote]That's not even factoring in the environmental, social and health problems that these corporations excel at. Each evil action rippling out into your community and causing problems which you end up paying for.[/quote]
So what is the answer? Do we go full commie, comrade?
So you pay a $100 a month for medical care? e.g. about £60 or £720 a year.
Wow that's a third of what the NHS expects to need to fund each and every person in the UK. You're health service must be amazingly efficent.
Oh hang on.
It's a work scheme, so how much is your employer adding? Do your premiuns jump if you have a serious illness that will affect you for life? And what if they discover a preexisting condition?
Oh and does it cover 100% of your need all the time?
I'm a fan of a classic RPG called Traveller. The original writer had a heart attack last year. So his fanclub organised a fundraiser for his treatment. Because as a freelancer he couldn't get into a good enough scheme to cover his treatment.
For a terribly serious, but standard condition.
That his decision to work as a freelancer cut him off from affordable healthcare.
If you can't get how weird and perverse that sounds to us in the UK. Youd don't know much.
nb my friend pays for private health in the UK. Which means he gets hotel standard stays when ill, same day apointments and all the other whistles and bells. And he pays slightly more because the NHS structure is so total it underwrites his provision.
Quote: sootyj @ July 18 2012, 4:08 PM BSTIt's a work scheme, so how much is your employer adding?
No idea.
Do your premiuns jump if you have a serious illness that will affect you for life?
No.
And what if they discover a preexisting condition?
No.
Oh and does it cover 100% of your need all the time?
My co-payment is very small.
That his decision to work as a freelancer cut him off from affordable healthcare.
If you can't get how weird and perverse that sounds to us in the UK. Youd don't know much.
He was not "cut off from affordable healthcare", he chose not to pay for medical insurance. It's the same as if a UK citizen refused to pay VAT and whatever else funds the NHS and was therefore cut off from benefits. (Although in this case he would have still received the medical treatment and been billed for it. There's really no way to force him to pay for it, either.)
Ok I pay tax set by the government that covers a range of services.
Now if Belgium invades I fully expect her majesties armed forces to fight them off with all effort.
I don't expect the MOD to send me a bill for £50,000 for war fighting services because I didn't pay for war insurance.
Or have to pay a man with a stick to hit those damn Belgians as I lucked out on war insurance.
I suppose I'm being assinine. But can't you appreciate that people who's employers isn't as beneficent as yours. Don't get a $100 a month cover? Or even at all affordable?
Is that really such a huge leap of the imagination?
That your employer however kindly. Having the power over your health care. Is well terrifyingly f**ked up and like something out of the Dark Ages?
Quote: DaButt @ July 18 2012, 4:49 PM BST(Although in this case he would have still received the medical treatment and been billed for it. There's really no way to force him to pay for it, either.)
Other than refusing anything other than emergency treatment or bankrupting him?
This really is a mutton headed argument.
Kaiser Permanente didn't just pay their CEO $130,000,000 last year. Because people could go meh to paying for insurance.
Quote: DaButt @ July 18 2012, 3:06 PM BSTDo we go full commie, comrade?
Who'd want to live in a communist state where the press is controlled by a handful of people, you're constantly monitored by your own government, corrupt politicians and businessmen exploit the proles and your consumer choices are limited by huge state run monopolies?
That sounds hellish. 
Quote: DaButt @ July 18 2012, 3:06 PM BSTDo we go full commie, comrade?
One sad thing about the US is you have eternally confused communism, a defunct political ideology forgotten in all but the most miserable parts of the world.
With social responsibility.
Huge corporations act much like small corrupt dictatorships, flying in the face of responsbile capitalism, democracy, rule of law and the American Dream itself.
Everything that US soldiers are fighting for around the world is being ignored by American companies on a daily basis.
Criticising the abhorrent and criminal practices of corporations only makes you a 'commie' if you watch Fox News.
Quote: sootyj @ July 18 2012, 4:59 PM BSTKaiser Permanente didn't just pay their CEO $130,000,000 last year. Because people could go meh to paying for insurance.
A quick Google says that you've exaggerated by a factor of 20.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ July 18 2012, 5:14 PM BSTCriticising the abhorrent and criminal practices of corporations only makes you a 'commie' if you watch Fox News.
I don't.
Quote: Stylee TingTing @ July 18 2012, 5:24 PM BSTWhat next? Dabutt, the Black Gay Rights activist?
Please, in plain and simple English, call me a racist or homophobe if you think that's what I am.