Quote: billwill @ July 9 2012, 11:27 PM BST
Obscure scifi joke of the week
Feminism: Right To Equality Page 5
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What equals equality Nat, for you? If you want equal pay and equal job opps etc. then you may even see that here in your lifetime, it's certainly come a long way towards that already, but then will come the very tricky problem of deserving it. If a woman getting the same dosh as a man on a factory floor loading hundred weight sacks, which I have done myself >_< falls behind, then it'll cause problems for the company. If they move her off the line to lighter stuff on the same pay then it will cause industrial relations problems and pretty much ruin the feminist's right to equality mantra and make them look silly.
You see, that kind of true equality is totally unworkable with what nature has given us. I've always thought that hard core feminists need to stop blaming men and start blaming nature or God if they're theists, because in purely physical terms at least, we are not equal, man has been given the advantage. I know the feminists don't like this, but no man can change it and it's not their fault.
At the risk of agreeing with everyone as usual I think most people are making valid points here. I would love to live in an ideal world in which race/ gender/ sexual orientation/ country of origin/ dis/ability etc are not reasons for deciding who gets the job.
Thanks to some laws and changes in attitudes by lots of lovely people things have improved immensely over the years. Even if the attitudes of some never will. But as many are still sidelined for whatever reason it must seem in other situations that it's like 'PC Gone Mad' when people then get opportunities because of the above rather than it not being an issue either way. The two sides of the coin therefore manage to wind most people up at some point or other.
It should be down to getting the best person for the job given their abilities and yes men are generally stronger than woman (but let's not discount Jodie Marsh here!) so in the case of heavy lifting I probably wouldn't apply. However, when people aren't just being argumentative/ witty for the sake of it, surely they can see that although we did have a woman prime minister (but did it have to be her!!!?) and there's currently a black president, they are the exceptions not the rule. In my little world of experience which is obviously just a slice of the pie, I find women having equal opportunity to get into an organisation but not so many make it to managerial level. And it still seems to be true that a tough male boss is respected but if a woman acts in the same way she's called a b***ch by some.
Then on the other hand as RC I think alluded to women get more seats on public transport and to take career breaks to have children which is as it should be. It's rare for the man to take that much time off for childcare although it was half his input as it were. And the reality is that it can be a pain to have someone go off for up to a year and hold the job open at the end of it. But I think this is one case where we need to suck it up (I say 'we' as I don't have children and have seen how that can interrupt things at work). But surely it's better to keep a fresh supply of kids coming along to parents who can take time out to look after them while they're at that fragile stage and then return to work doing what seems like a hell of a juggling act to continue caring for the child while being just as valuable a contributor to the workplace. Without kids they'll be no one to look after us as a nation of oldies so let's not rule them out completely. Obviously I know nothing about children but I'd love to see RC as a single dad with his little'un parked outside in a buggy while he has a crafty drink and a fag down the pub. ;-)
The only thing I do take issue with here, Renegade, is this business about us getting more TV time than you - what tosh! I don't watch EastEnders but I'll take the hit on Coronation Street and I've lost count of how many times that's been interrupted for yet another four hours of men kicking balls about so other men can watch and say "if I hadn't got that thigh injury/asthma/hiccups when I was 14 that would have been me". Bloody football... Let's see how you like it when I take over the controls and interrupt your match just as it goes to penalties to make an important announcement about Nick's birthday party for Simon (He had clowns). 
That would be such sweet revenge.
I'm probably talking to myself by this point a) because I'm a woman and b) because I'm waffling on - this is why I don't post much.
Jane I really appreciate that thoughtful imput, so agree with your relevant sentiments, thanks x
5 pages so far. It is true then... Feminism is a Fat issue.
I agree with everything you've said Jane P, except this -
Quote: Jane P @ July 10 2012, 7:29 AM BSTThe only thing I do take issue with here, Renegade, is this business about us getting more TV time than you - what tosh! I don't watch EastEnders but I'll take the hit on Coronation Street and I've lost count of how many times that's been interrupted for yet another four hours of men kicking balls about so other men can watch and say "if I hadn't got that thigh injury/asthma/hiccups when I was 14 that would have been me". Bloody football...
Eastenders / Coronation Street / Emmerdale / Hollyoaks / TOWIE / Chelsea / Geordie / Strictly / X Factor / BGT / I'm A Celebrity / Big Brother / Call The Midwife / Springwatch Live, beyond etcetera. These estrogen fuelled televisual atrocities are on 24-7, 52-12, 365.
Just because as a woman, you don't remember any of the storylines, who won any of the competitions or who got evicted from the jungle, doesn't mean that they aren't on almost continually.
Once every two years, we get a Euro or World Cup during the summer months and for the rest of the year, it's the Champions League - but that is only on about 10 times in the space of six months.
I call tosh on your tosh!
Quote: Jane P @ July 10 2012, 7:29 AM BSTThen on the other hand as RC I think alluded to women get more seats on public transport and to take career breaks to have children which is as it should be. It's rare for the man to take that much time off for childcare although it was half his input as it were. ;-)
I think part about sharing the child care might because men aren't always entitiled to take time to look after their kids, or if they do it is far less than women, even if you only take it from when the baby is born.
I wroked in childcare at one stage and was amazed by the attitude some people have towards men who work in that industry, people still thought this should be womans job. That was just a bit under 10 years ago. The same attitude displayed towards women who want to work in traditionaly male dominanted industries gets called sexist.
As for seats on public transport I don't think men should be expected to give up their seats just for a woman. If that woman is pregnant/disabled/elderly then I would expect either a man or other woman to give up their seat. The same would apply for elderly or disabled man.
I was going to read The Female Eunuch once but when I realised that Germaine Greer was an anagram of EMERGE ANGRIER I suspected there was a hidden agenda!
Thanks Dellas.
Reds I agree re childcare, again it's about equality or lack of either way around. Sorry, I was being flippant about seats on buses as it annoys RC. At the risk of repeating an age old argument some men still complain that women are rude to them if they open doors for them - I don't know any of these women as most of us appreciate it as a nice courtesy, and we are happy to open doors for men too. It's the same with offering a seat to someone who looks like they need it or even just to be nice - the world needs more 'nice'.
Renegade - lets face it I hate sport on TV so to me it seems to be on incessantly and you hate women* so what you perceive as 'womens' programmes seem to be on incessantly. However, you could just go down the park and watch people play football. But I can't go anywhere else to get my fix of Steve McDonald's ever changing hairline. Counter Tosh claim rejected!
* I may be exaggerating.
I hate that new KFC advert where that woman constantly makes a pissy face because men don't open doors, or change the water tank for her.
When frankly this is a small cost to pay for equity in pay, not being raped by a husband she can't divorce, spending her life in a loony bin for getting up the duff or being burnt as a witch.
Not to mention sweety if you're so orgasmic about the Colonel's offerings. Every fella's going to know exactly what kind of lady you are.
Quote: Jane P @ July 10 2012, 10:02 AM BSTRenegade - lets face it I hate sport on TV so to me it seems to be on incessantly and you hate women* so what you perceive as 'womens' programmes seem to be on incessantly. However, you could just go down the park and watch people play football. But I can't go anywhere else to get my fix of Steve McDonald's ever changing hairline. Counter Tosh claim rejected!
* I may be exaggerating.
Well then, let's take your argument to the next logical conclusion. What is the worst kind of football you can ever imagine? That's right, it's woman's football.
Women hate football, can't play it was well as the men, nobody goes to watch it, it's hardly ever shown on television, loads of unsold Olympic tickets are available for it and it's just a massive waste of everyone's time and money.
I think women's football should be banned and no woman should be allowed to play football ever.
If I know female logic, this should make you angry and suddenly champion football because I said a woman shouldn't be allowed to do it.
Tosh on!
Men's rollerball and netball teams aren't very good.
Although I may be the only sentient creature in this star system to be aware of these niche sports.
Sports so pointless I doubt even the players have even heard of them.
Quote: sootyj @ July 10 2012, 10:07 AM BSTI hate that new KFC advert where that woman constantly makes a pissy face because men don't open doors, or change the water tank for her.
I blame the '8 out of 10 women' for everything that is wrong with the world. When asked if it visibly reduced the signs of ageing '8 out of 10 women' agreed.
These '8 out of 10 women' will pretty much agree with everything they've been told by someone. Somewhere out there are the other 2 non-comformist women who realise that all skin cream is just moisturiser and you can buy it for next to nothing in a pound shop. Because they know this secret, they're probably forced to live off the grid in a sewer to avoid Skynet and robotic attack drones.
Sorry RC when people start talking about football I tune out and think about shopping or 50 shades of grey. I'm happy to consider you an expert on the matter as it is of no consequence to me.
Sooty, your sensitive handling of the subject is as always inspiring.
Quote: Jane P @ July 10 2012, 10:20 AM BSTSooty, your sensitive handling of the subject is as always inspiring.
Oi according to the Made Up Sex Discrimination Act 1983
I don't have to treat nobody with sensitivity.