Quote: Stylee TingTing @ June 25 2012, 5:15 PM BST.. and who were those americans who didn't capture any prisoners at all for the first 15 months of their involvement on the frontline, until questions were asked in the Houses of Parliament, with the miraculous result that they immediately started capturing prisoners? Was that the US Marines? Or am I getting mixed up?
I don't recall the USMC being involved in the European theater of WWII.
The US Marines were indeed soulely involved in the Pacific.
It was rather difficult to persuade the Japanese to surrender.
Quote: sootyj @ June 25 2012, 6:45 PM BSTThe US Marines were indeed soulely involved in the Pacific.
And that's only two links.
But in my comment, I never mentioned the US Marines and Europe. Someone made a false assumption, there.
So.. it can't have been the US Marines. My friend in Marseilles is obviously mistaken. I can't for the life of me remember, but I have this nagging suspicion that there were questions asked about the particular US Regiment involved in said allegations, in the Houses of Parliament. Trouble is, I don't know where to look to verify that. It can't be a matter of public record, can it..
Quote: Stylee TingTing @ June 25 2012, 7:32 PM BSTBut in my comment, I never mentioned the US Marines and Europe. Someone made a false assumption, there.
You mentioned France, Germany and Parliament. I think I can be forgiven for assuming that you were talking about Europe. As your links confirm, USMC action in Europe during WWII was extremely limited and not really all that noteworthy in the grand scheme of things. The Pacific theater was an entirely different story.
Quote: Stylee TingTing @ June 25 2012, 7:32 PM BST[ I can't for the life of me remember, but I have this nagging suspicion that there were questions asked about the particular US Regiment involved in said allegations, ...
There's this from wiki:
Following the Operation Dragoon landings in southern France and the collapse of the German military occupation in August 1944, large numbers of Germans could not escape from France and surrendered to the French Forces of the Interior. The Resistance executed a few of the Wehrmacht and most of the Gestapo or SS prisoners.[8]
The Maquis also executed 17 German prisoners of war at Saint-Julien-de-Crempse (in the Dordogne region), on 10 September 1944, 14 of whom have since been positively identified. The murders were revenge killings for German murders of 17 local inhabitants of the village of St. Julien on 3 August 1944, which were themselves reprisal killings in response to Resistance activity in the St. Julien region, which was home to an active Maquis cell. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II
I can't for the life of me think where to look for any evidence of any allied war crimes, nor any questions in Parliament pertaining to such evidence, but whilst trying to log on to "Aquaphibians Fan Club", I came across this:
"On 17th August 1943, Patton and his troops marched into Messina.
During the campaign seventy-three Italian prisoners were murdered by soldiers in the 45th Division. General Omar Bradley ordered two men to face a general court-martial for premeditated murder. The men's main defence was that they were obeying orders issued by Patton in a speech he made to his soldiers on 27th June. Several soldiers said they were willing to give evidence that Patton had told then to take no prisoners. One officer claimed that Patton had said: "The more prisoners we took, the more we'd have to feed, and not to fool with prisoners." In order to protect Patton from the charge of war crimes, Bradley decided to drop the investigation into the murder of the Italian soldiers."
Quote: sootyj @ June 25 2012, 1:58 PM BSTIts interesting one for me.
Bomber command more than any other unit of the military took unbelievable casualties, 30% I believe at one point death was a statistical certainty.
The problem is thanks to their rather deranged commander. They killed civilians by the thousand for little appreciable gain.
Where as most modern analysis suggests if they'd joined the US bombers in hitting industrial and oil targets they could have drastically shortened the war.
Harris didn't even care much for his own crews. Progressively stripping his bombers of armour and useful guns.
So I'd say Bomber command should get a memorial (and one that acknowledges its victims). But Harris should lose his.
This is a tough one for me.
My uncle was a sergeant wireless operator in a Pathfinder squadron, the only Englishman I believe in an otherwise Australian crew. He was reported missing when his Lancaster was shot down over the North Sea. He was twenty-one, a brave boy doing his duty. His absence was something I was aware of growing up, and I find that, as my mother and remaining uncles grow older, he features increasingly in their reminiscences. I rather like that I shall be passing a memorial to him each day on my way into work.
But in a war in which there were few moral equivalences, the terror bombing of cities is a crime that rests as squarely on the shoulders of the allies as of the axis, perhaps more so as the Nazis never bought so thoroughly into the idea of 'dehousing' as did Churchill's Cabinet when presented with Lindemann's deeply flawed plan for area bombing. I do wonder how some of those who have campaigned so vocally for a memorial to Bomber Command would respond if the Germans were to build a monument to the Luftwaffe.
While I honour all those brave young men, I baulk at showing any respect to the insanity to which they heedlessly gave their lives. My uncle's name is on the RAF Memorial at Runnymede. Perhaps that should have sufficed.
Quote: Tursiops @ June 25 2012, 10:13 PM BSTI do wonder how some of those who have campaigned so vocally for a memorial to Bomber Command would respond if the Germans were to build a monument to the Luftwaffe.
The Germans have already done so. It's entirely appropriate for a nation to build memorials to the men and women who died honorably in the defence of the homeland.
Quote: DaButt @ June 25 2012, 10:34 PM BSTThe Germans have already done so.
I must admit I had wondered. Best not tell the Daily Express though. But I am guessing that it is more along the lines of the Runnymede Memorial; I do not think the Luftwaffe organisation had a precise equivalent to Bomber Command.
It's entirely appropriate for a nation to build memorials to the men and women who died honorably in the defence of the homeland.
Do they have one to the SS as well?
The almost perfect Daily Mail story -
It really is good stuff.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ June 25 2012, 1:03 PM BSThttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18574279
Lonesome George, the last of the Pinta turtle species is now dead.
I met Lonesome George. I was told by the keeper that his willy - George's not the keeper's - had shrivelled through lack of use. A sobering warning.
Quote: Tursiops @ June 25 2012, 11:03 PM BSTA sobering warning.
Alas too late.
But thanks for the thought.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ June 25 2012, 5:08 PM BSTI think we are being far too critical about this book, it really is the great gender equaliser.
For years, people have said that the Internet is full of nerds who spend all their time looking at porn and wanking. Who knew it would be the women?
On the subject of this book can I just take this opportunity to educate young ladies who have recently discovered pornography. Pornography is great for bedrooms, deserted woodland and if you feel inclined public parks. It is NOT for trains and buses. There were three women reading 50 Shades of Grey this morning on my train which made me feel slightly uncomfortable. I couldn't help but wonder which one of the three was the dampest. Admittedly it was a mistake on my part to ask. Why is it ok for ladies to read this book on the tube but the second I pull out a copy of Razzle I get my Oyster card confiscated?
It is an odd thing to do. It's like when men get caught looking at porn on a library computer, or at work. What's the point? You can't 'do' anything with it. So to speak. :/
Quote: zooo @ June 26 2012, 12:13 AM BSTIt is an odd thing to do. It's like when men get caught looking at porn on a library computer, or at work. What's the point? You can't 'do' anything with it. So to speak. :/
Maybe it's a 'bank' deposit?