I read the news today oh boy! Page 863

Quote: chipolata @ June 12 2012, 11:03 AM BST

It's just as conceiviable that the farmhand discovered the father abusing the girl and tried to stop him. The father, worried that his paedophile ways were about to be exposed, killed the heroic farmhand and terrified his traumatised daughter into going along with it. The poor girl could now be faced with the prospect of spending the next ten or fifteen years being abused by the father.

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According to the sheriff, none of the witness statements or evidence contradicts the father's statement that he heard his daughter screaming, found the guy on top of his daughter and hit him with his bare hands. It appears that the father was tending horses with a group of people, so it's reasonable to assume that they reported hearing the screams as well. It's also reasonable to assume that a medical examination and statement from the girl also corroborated the father's version of events.

I'm not proclaiming his innocence without full access to the evidence, but I am proclaiming my belief that innocent, law-abiding citizens deserve the full protection of the law while violent criminals deserve whatever happens to them at the hands of their victims. As it stands, there is no evidence that the father was anything but a protector of his child, and the dead man was a scumbag molester.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ June 12 2012, 2:39 PM BST

..if there's no evidence to convict, the cops should sweat this guy until he confesses - guilty or not. Then they'll be justice.

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This is one of those Freudian whatsits, isn't it? True colours and all that?

Actually Renegade I just realised you were doing that weird thing you do; where you insult people, espouse quarter baked sub John C Riley views and generally try and throw a very small cat among some generally disinterested pigeons.

Apologies I'll butt out. Have fun, I guess it must entertain you.

Quote: chipolata @ June 12 2012, 11:06 AM BST

It seems that increasingly American police forces take the word of the last man standing in any crime. Which I suppose makes closing cases easier.

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Not at all. Try telling that to the tens of thousands of actual murderers behind bars.

Quote: Nat Wicks @ June 12 2012, 2:44 PM BST

When did our standards become so low?

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I think the police not charging the man who's daughter was molested in one of the high points of legal history. Time, money and further suffering was saved because the evidence suggests that the father was in the right.

As for the testimony of the four year old daughter - that is a much trickier can of worms - is it admissable as evidence or not? Could she be co-erced to back up her father's lies? Did the molestor deliberately choose such a young girl in the hopes that no one would believer her?

It's a moral judgement I'm glad I don't have to make.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ June 12 2012, 2:54 PM BST

I think the police not charging the man who's daughter was molested in one of the high points of legal history. Time, money and further suffering was saved because the evidence suggests that the father was in the right.

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I meant that the acceptance that it's one or the other. But I think you know that really.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ June 12 2012, 2:54 PM BST

It's a moral judgement I'm glad I don't have to make.

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Me too. It's too much for anyone really.

Except for Judge Judy. Judge Judy could do it, and I would trust her implicitly.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ June 12 2012, 2:54 PM BST

It's a moral judgement I'm glad I don't have to make.

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Forgive me. I am somewhat lacking in common sense, but..

I had the impression that you'd already made your judgment? That you had already closed the case?

RCSI Texas.

Quote: Nat Wicks @ June 12 2012, 2:57 PM BST

I meant that the acceptance that it's one or the other. But I think you know that really.

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Yes, I do know that really, but I like to challenge perceptions.

Quote: Tursiops @ June 12 2012, 1:28 PM BST

I suspect that part of the unease is the vicarious thrill and sense of vindication which comes across in his posts. This is a man with guns, and apparently something of an itch.

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Something of an itch? I support the right of the innocent, law-abiding citizen 100% and feel that criminals -- especially the violent, career-type -- deserve whatever happens to them at the hands of their victims.

I have no desire to kill anyone, but I would do it to protect an innocent person from serious harm. I get no joy from the killing of a violent thug, but I have no sympathy for them, either. But I'm glad that the scumbags are no longer able to hurt the victim or future victims and I hope that their deaths will make their criminal brethren think twice about hurting innocent people.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ June 12 2012, 1:33 PM BST

I think it's about time we all clubbed together and paid for Dabutt and RC to have a night in a hotel together. Some place nice, no budget crap. Good room service.

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So now I'm a murderous gun nut with an itchy trigger finger and a homosexual?

Quote: DaButt @ June 12 2012, 3:00 PM BST

So now I'm a murderous gun nut with an itchy trigger figger and a homosexual?

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Oh boy!

(obscure Quantum Leap pun)

Quote: Stylee TingTing @ June 12 2012, 2:58 PM BST

I had the impression that you'd already made your judgment.

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My judgement was that the police handling the case were correct in not charging the father for the death of the molestor if the evidence overwhelmingly suggested his innocence.

The police in the area are then free to go after real criminals rather then wasting money by staging an elaborate court room stage show that benefits no one.

As for very young children giving evidence - to suggest it is always true will be exploited by evil parents, to suggest it is always false will be exploited by child abusers. That is the moral judgement I did not want to make.

Quote: sootyj @ June 12 2012, 1:43 PM BST

But if you have any involvement in preventing abuse you rapidly learn there are 2 approaches.

1 "Abusers must be punished"
2 "CHildren must be protected"

If you really care about kids you try for both. All to often those who love mobs and brutality really care about the first.

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I'm in both camps, but I must add that killing someone in the commission of a violent crime isn't punishing an abuser, it's making the attacker stop his attack. Period.

Quote: DaButt @ June 12 2012, 3:00 PM BST

So now I'm a murderous gun nut with an itchy trigger figger and a homosexual?

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Yes but only the first two things are bad.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ June 12 2012, 2:58 PM BST

Yes, I do know that really, but I like to challenge perceptions.

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Now that's not very sporting.

Quote: sootyj @ June 12 2012, 2:08 PM BST

DaButt generally comes over a profoundly nice guy (hey he bought me a pint he's alright). Not to mention about one of the most tolerant and accepting people on this forum.

And he only bought his first shooter a year or so ago.

All this makes me a little more sad over some of his more conservative views. Because if a good guy thinks that way about being killed....

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I'm quite certain that supporting an individual's right to self-defence isn't a conservative view, rather it's a basic human right and instinct.

Quote: DaButt @ June 12 2012, 3:02 PM BST

I'm in both camps, but I must add that killing someone in the commission of a violent crime isn't punishing an abuser, it's making the attacker stop his attack. Period.

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Is there a description of the actual act and how the event went down? It must have been a pretty extreme attack to have to kill somebody to stop them doing it?