I read the news today oh boy! Page 857

I honestly think that the UK just doesn't have the resources to manage a large prison population. We've already got 80,000+ crims behind bars and we're at bursting point.

This lack of prison space means that horrible people are released onto the streets to further escalate their criminal ambitions.

If we can't prevent it or manage it and crime is increasing, then instances of vigilantism will inevitably increase. Unfortunately, in this country, that will fall to the more far right elements of our society.

Quote: sootyj @ June 11 2012, 11:41 PM BST

DaButt that you have such a prepared defence for goat sodomy is more impressive than scary.

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It's easy: you just make stuff up.

But the Menedez case took a long time before it fell apart. At a chief inspector level, officers just lied and falsified evidence. It took an extremely thorough investigation before the truth was verified.

Cops are pretty good at screwing around with evidence when they're protecting themselves. They aren't the suspects in the Texas case.

Oh and just one other thing. Proper interrogation of witnesses takes weeks not days.

Think how much fun it will be for that 4-year-old girl to relive her molestation for weeks on end in front of countless strangers.

Quote: Oldrocker @ June 11 2012, 11:59 PM BST

Wait until you have a four year old daughter and repost.

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Thats an assinine and emotive argument.

Actually it really pisses me off.

The emotive cry "think of the children they must be protected!"

Has been the fig leaf for too many murders and cruelty in recent years.

I was studying "mate murder" of late. A crime where basically a vulnerable person living in the community is befriended and then murdered by exploitative criminals.

Pretty much in every case the defence involved bogus accusations of child abuse.

Quote: Nat Wicks @ June 11 2012, 11:56 PM BST

The thing is, I don't disagree that accidentally killing someone you catch molesting your child should be murder one, but it feels like when anyone dies at the hands of another, there should at least be a thorough review, if not a trial.

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The problem with this approach is that you are putting innocent people in jail until the court case arrives. If a middle aged mother of three killed a knife weilding burglar in her home, would you be happy for her children to be taken into care as she sits in a prison waiting for a court date?

Quote: Oldrocker @ June 11 2012, 11:59 PM BST

Wait until you have a four year old daughter and repost.

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I agree completely. My opinions are at best naive, but I can't change them at the moment. I'm a bit of an 'ideal world' sort of person. I'm sure circumstance will beat it out of me in the coming years.

Quote: Nat Wicks @ June 11 2012, 11:56 PM BST

there should at least be a thorough review, if not a trial.
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This is of course a very uninformed view, but it's how I feel.

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As the story said, the evidence will be collected and reviewed by a grand jury which will decide whether he will be indicted. The good thing about the system is that the man who watched his daughter being molested won't spend days or weeks behind bars while they decide.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ June 12 2012, 12:02 AM BST

The problem with this approach is that you are putting innocent people in jail until the court case arrives. If a middle aged mother of three killed a knife weilding burglar in her home, would you be happy for her children to be taken into care as she sits in a prison waiting for a court date?

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Oh absolutely not. The decision to hold someone pending trial is a different situation completely. This should be based on risk rather than guilt.

Quote: DaButt @ June 12 2012, 12:00 AM BST

Think how much fun it will be for that 4-year-old girl to relive her molestation for weeks on end in front of countless strangers.

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Come on you know that isnt how interviewing child or vulnerable suspects work.

Not least of all because they're less able to lie.

And DaButt the police have got targets to meet same as any employee. And some like in any organisation will twist the rules to meet the quota.

Quote: DaButt @ June 12 2012, 12:06 AM BST

As the story said, the evidence will be collected and reviewed by a grand jury which will decide whether he will be indicted. The good thing about the system is that the man who watched his daughter being molested won't spend days or weeks behind bars while they decide.

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He'd have made bail.

And good to hear the grand jury is taking a sensible course.

nb Zimmerman didnt get bail on account of him concealing $135,000 dollars and a second passport (just getting my reDaButtall in early)

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ June 11 2012, 11:59 PM BST

I honestly think that the UK just doesn't have the resources to manage a large prison population. We've already got 80,000+ crims behind bars and we're at bursting point.

This lack of prison space means that horrible people are released onto the streets to further escalate their criminal ambitions.

If we can't prevent it or manage it and crime is increasing, then instances of vigilantism will inevitably increase. Unfortunately, in this country, that will fall to the more far right elements of our society.

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The Isle of Man.

I mean who the f**k lives there anyway? It's pretty much Alkatraz in waiting.

Quote: sootyj @ June 12 2012, 12:02 AM BST

Thats an assinine and emotive argument.

Actually it really pisses me off.

The emotive cry "think of the children they must be protected!"

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Ah, but is it? Should a fully grown adult who punches a six year old as hard as they can get an equal sentence to say, a fully grown adult punching another fully grown adult?

As long as physical and emotional abuse is involved, it is difficult for the argument not to get emotive.

Quote: sootyj @ June 12 2012, 12:02 AM BST

Thats an assinine and emotive argument.

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It's called being a father.

One 's' in asinine.

Quote: Nat Wicks @ June 12 2012, 12:06 AM BST

Oh absolutely not. The decision to hold someone pending trial is a different situation completely. This should be based on risk rather than guilt.

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As long as there was a foolproof way to expunge any record of arrest for an innocent person, then I could get behind this. Just being arrested for murder has serious repercussions on any future plans, including international travel.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ June 12 2012, 12:13 AM BST

As long as there was a foolproof way to expunge any record of arrest for an innocent person, then I could get behind this. Just being arrested for murder has serious repercussions on any future plans, including international travel.

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Yes you're bang on there. There's no way someone should have a criminal record for something they haven't been convicted of.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ June 12 2012, 12:11 AM BST

Ah, but is it? Should a fully grown adult who punches a six year old as hard as they can get an equal sentence to say, a fully grown adult punching another fully grown adult?

As long as physical and emotional abuse is involved, it is difficult for the argument not to get emotive.

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No I meant that the doubts about the case should be ignored because a child was involved.

Of course if its proven child abuse is worse than adult abuse.

Quote: Oldrocker @ June 12 2012, 12:12 AM BST

It's called being a father.

One 's' in asinine.

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And still asinine. By the way I like having poor spelling.

It means when someone points it out, they really don't have any other point.

Quote: sootyj @ June 12 2012, 12:18 AM BST

And still asinine. By the way I like having poor spelling.

It means when someone points it out, they really don't have any other point.

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I made my point before correcting your spelling.

Or am I missing the point ?

Quote: Nat Wicks @ June 12 2012, 12:15 AM BST

Yes you're bang on there. There's no way someone should have a criminal record for something they haven't been convicted of.

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Unfortunately, the system doesn't work properly now - so many mistakes are being made with CRB cases based on nothing more then two people having a similar name.

Hence my concern about arresting and charging people even if they are blatantly innocent.

'Now I know you've been through a very traumatic time and you are living with the guilt of killing someone to protect your child...but we're taking you down the cop shop for some lovely interrogation and time in the cells, that'll cheer you right up. Yeah, we know your innocent, but, you know, it's the law.'