It's more about learning useful thinking skills I guess.
No the Battle of Bosworth isn't as important as the ability to research the data and feed it back in a meaningful form.
Education is a strange thing and its value hard to pin down. But by gum it's there.
nb I mentioned dyson as an example when people talk about great innovators. We seem to keep talking about a man who made a better hoover.
Quote: sootyj @ May 9 2012, 1:13 PM BSTnb I mentioned dyson as an example when people talk about great innovators. We seem to keep talking about a man who made a better hoover.
I think we always bring up Dyson becomes he's a relatable, recent and demonstrable example of both innovation and financial success from the UK.
There might be a British scientist who's cloned fruit flies and seperated their genes to create a new medicine for one of the massive chemical giants, but we rarely hear about these people and their contribution is hard to quantify as an individual success.
So again, does educated equal clever?
Course not. But it does help.
Quote: zooo @ May 9 2012, 1:30 PM BSTCourse not. But it does help.
Then why did the BBC announce that the Chinese were the 'cleverest' people on Earth based on their education results?
That's right zooo, I am asking you to explain what some BBC journalist said on a website. That's fair.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ May 9 2012, 12:29 PM BSThttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17585201
So the question is - does education make you clever?
No. I base that on the sheer numbers of dimwits it was my lot to teach over twenty years. Education gives you knowledge. Up to you how you use it.
But in terms of the debate, I wouldn't want to rely on the US for innovation as the Us tends to stop at innovation. It doesn't do development. And minaturisation. This is why we need the Japanese. Incapable of having ideas of their own but boy can they run with other peoples' concepts. Think about the Walkman. US invention but it was Sony that made the money. The Chinese are different, as has been said. They just rehash ideas without any refinement and usually make it worse. Ever seen the Top Gear China special?
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ May 9 2012, 1:34 PM BSTThen why did the BBC announce that the Chinese were the 'cleverest' people on Earth based on their education results?
To piss you off.
Quote: KLRiley @ May 9 2012, 1:38 PM BSTEducation gives you knowledge. Up to you how you use it.
That's kind of my thinking on the matter. I think education is great for the basics and the foundations, but beyond that it appears to be a self propelling archetype.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 9 2012, 1:41 PM BSTTo piss you off.
On a related note, it's not just the BBC pissing me off over China. There has been a concerted effort by the West to redact China's recent history in order to curry financial favour with the Red Menace.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ May 9 2012, 1:27 PM BSTI think we always bring up Dyson becomes he's a relatable, recent and demonstrable example of both innovation and financial success from the UK.
There might be a British scientist who's cloned fruit flies and seperated their genes to create a new medicine for one of the massive chemical giants, but we rarely hear about these people and their contribution is hard to quantify as an individual success.
So again, does educated equal clever?
The uneasy truth is actually yes it does. IQ is related to class, educational attainment and development of thinking skills.
So put a guy with a little brain in Eton and Oxbridge and the guy who comes out will in all measure be clever.
Put mr big brain in Shitsworth comp and he'll come out less clever.
Yes there are exceptions but by and largethat's what they are. Its why Grammar schools and scholarships are so related to working class educational attainment.
As for British innovation in the early second half of the century Britain invented; the computer, computer code, radar/sonar (v important), the jet engine, found DNA etc etc.
You wouldn't think it.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ May 9 2012, 1:34 PM BSTThat's right zooo, I am asking you to explain what some BBC journalist said on a website. That's fair.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ May 9 2012, 1:52 PM BSTThat's kind of my thinking on the matter. I think education is great for the basics and the foundations, but beyond that it appears to be a self propelling archetype.
On a related note, it's not just the BBC pissing me off over China. There has been a concerted effort by the West to redact China's recent history in order to curry financial favour with the Red Menace.
Because in 10-20 years China may well be the preeminent super power on every level.
So lets play nice when our fear isn't quite so obvious.
Albeit the end of Empire pigeons are coming to roost in England.
Quote: sootyj @ May 9 2012, 1:57 PM BSTThe uneasy truth is actually yes it does. IQ is related to class, educational attainment and development of thinking skills.
No, IQ is related to how well you can compete in IQ tests and is a fallable measurement of 'cleverness'.
I don't really want to bring class into this, as it has very little to do with intelligence - I've met many a clever working class person with no education and many an ignorant middle class person with a degree from Oxford.
Now, believing that you are clever because you are middle class and have a degree is a different story. Being able to pretentiously recite an obscure poet gives the illusion of cleverness, but really, it's no different from remembering who won the League / Cup double in 1971. The amount of cleverness is the same, it's the specialisations that differ.
The three 'R's used to be - Reading, w-Riting and a-Rithmatic - now it's just Rote, Remember, Regurgitate.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ May 9 2012, 1:52 PM BSTI'm wondering if we've all been brainwashed to accept that education equals success?
If you think a prestigious job title is the mark of success, then you'd need education to get it. Britain today has some of the best job titles ever.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ May 9 2012, 1:52 PM BSTin order to curry financial favour
I always read that as 'curry flavour'.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ May 9 2012, 2:07 PM BSTNo, IQ is related to how well you can compete in IQ tests and is a fallable measurement of 'cleverness'.
I don't really want to bring class into this, as it has very little to do with intelligence - I've met many a clever working class person with no education and many an ignorant middle class person with a degree from Oxford.
Now, believing that you are clever because you are middle class and have a degree is a different story. Being able to pretentiously recite an obscure poet gives the illusion of cleverness, but really, it's no different from remembering who won the League / Cup double in 1971. The amount of cleverness is the same, it's the specialisations that differ.
The three 'R's used to be - Reading, w-Riting and a-Rithmatic - now it's just Rote, Remember, Regurgitate.
Nope IQ is a measure of education and social normalcy. Sorry it's been tested again and again.
Yes there are exceptions but that's all they are.
It gets confused because talent and quality of education go together far less often than money and education.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ May 9 2012, 2:07 PM BSTnow it's just Rote, Remember, Regurgitate.
Isn't that actually what people say it used to be? That up until the '50s, students were just taught to parrot facts and historical dates etc.
Well it's what most education is about through out history.