I read the news today oh boy! Page 768

Quote: youngian @ April 11 2012, 1:39 PM BST

At the time he was fighting with the Afghan Mujahideen against the Soviet Army so he was therefore 'a freedom fighter'.

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Is that why he entered the UK on a student visa? That's not the same as the British government hailing him as a returning hero.

But thanks to the good works carried out by Hamza and his ilk, we are in a totally unfathomable situation of young British Islamic extremists spending their gap year going to Afghanistan and Somalia to kill people, including British soldiers.

Multi-culturalism at it's finest.

Quote: sootyj @ April 11 2012, 12:42 PM BST

The borders agency is yet another new or revamped government dept with too little money, agency staff, no direction and weak leadership.

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Under New labour the default response to criticism was to rebrand and reorganise. So rather than identifying where the problems lay and doing something about them, management could devote themselves to drawing up new organograms and job specs.

UKBA was a shambles from the word go. I recall being told in the early days by a former Customs rummage crew that the shiny new borders agency uniforms were not fit for purpose and fell apart as soon they started clambering around looking in boxes or whatever. A small thing, but symptomatic of a management who did not have a bleeding clue what they were taking on.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ April 11 2012, 1:52 PM BST

Is that why he entered the UK on a student visa? That's not the same as the British government hailing him as a returning hero.

But thanks to the good works carried out by Hamza and his ilk, we are in a totally unfathomable situation of young British Islamic extremists spending their gap year going to Afghanistan and Somalia to kill people, including British soldiers.

Multi-culturalism at it's finest.

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Except they're being indoctrinated by

1 The internet
2 Native born fundamentalists
3 Occaisonally an asslyum seeking terrorsit bastard

There's a whole host of reasons young Jihadists leave the UK to fight with AQ. One of the Brits released from Guantanomo claimed he spent the summer with AQ because he liked their giant nan breads. More often it's the cheap heroin or just plain boredom.

Same reasons hundreds of Brits joined the various mercenary units in the Balkan conflicts.

Perhaps the most bloody obvious is there is a war going on.

Quote: Tursiops @ April 11 2012, 1:57 PM BST

Under New labour the default response to criticism was to rebrand and reorganise. So rather than identifying where the problems lay and doing something about them, management could devote themselves to drawing up new organograms and job specs.

UKBA was a shambles from the word go. I recall being told in the early days by a former Customs rummage crew that the shiny new borders agency uniforms were not fit for purpose and fell apart as soon they started clambering around looking in boxes or whatever. A small thing, but symptomatic of a management who did not have a bleeding clue what they were taking on.

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Yeh I came back from Amsterdam's crumbling in need of refit Schipol to Heathrow Terminal 5 (all shiny and new).

The confusion was greater and the G4S staff shouting conflicting advice ridiculous.

Between NewLab and Conservatives this country is getting to be a very, very silly place.

Its been vexing me for sometime why fashion editors love Sam Cam and (very slightly) despair of the Duchess.

But luckily the Telegraph has their top investigative team on the case-

http://fashion.telegraph.co.uk/columns/lisa-armstrong/TMG9189073/Why-fashion-editors-love-Sam-Cam-and-very-slightly-despair-of-the-Duchess.html

Quote: sootyj @ April 11 2012, 2:13 PM BST

Except they're being indoctrinated by

1 The internet
2 Native born fundamentalists
3 Occaisonally an asslyum seeking terrorsit bastard

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One of the fundamentalists we're shipping to America is a British born Muslim who ran websites to arrange for UK born Muslims to go over and fight. His father is outraged that he's not being tried in Britain - I'm outraged that supposedly British people brought up in a tolerant multi-cultural society are ready to kill innocents in the name of their God.

I'm not sure if the 7/7 Bombers murdered 53 people out of boredom.

Quote: youngian @ April 11 2012, 2:22 PM BST

Its been vexing me for sometime why fashion editors love Sam Cam and (very slightly) despair of the Duchess.

But luckily the Telegraph has their top investigative team on the case-

http://fashion.telegraph.co.uk/columns/lisa-armstrong/TMG9189073/Why-fashion-editors-love-Sam-Cam-and-very-slightly-despair-of-the-Duchess.html

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Thank God someone has had the guts to tackle this very real issue of the conflicting prejudices of Fashion Editors.

Why without Fashion Editors, the world as we know would collapse into anarchy, despair and cannibalism. Probably.

Sadly the inquiry found in atleast one case, it's cos the guy didn't want to work in his dads shop.

There's a reason its called the banality of evil.

People do the most insanely evil things all too often for the very stupidest of reasons.

And that guy should have been tried in the UK

Quote: sootyj @ April 11 2012, 2:29 PM BST

Sadly the inquiry found in atleast one case, it's cos the guy didn't want to work in his dads shop.

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Yeah, I don't think that was the main factor behind his behaviour. It also irks me that 3 out of the 4 bombers were born and raised abroad, but because they had been in Britain for all of 5 minutes on dodgy visas, they were rebranded as 'British citizens'.

Personally, I am more then happy for British terrorists to be shipped off to a SuperMax facility in the US. At the very least it will act as deterent and at the very most, it frees up space in UK prisons for more foreigns, such as Albanians and Romanians.

Renegade I am delighted to see you for once coming out with the classic liberal fallacy;

"...to carry out a suicide bombing is such an awful thing, there must be a good reason for doing it."

The research into why people joined AQ, became suicide bombers and all those other foolish notions. Have been depressingly prosaic; boredom, frustration and bad advice. Brain washing whether by CIA Mkultra, AQ or DPRK has been proven to be pretty much bunk.

One of the 9/11 bombers is reckoned to have mainly been motivated. By the fact he could go to titty bars and drink whiskey as part of his cover.

We might be all killed by some loser who just wanted a wank.

Quote: sootyj @ April 11 2012, 2:50 PM BST

We might be all killed by some loser who just wanted a wank.

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Is that a coded warning for the Friday drinks? Should we bring stab proof vests?

The big bit that you are missing out on is the facilitation of these desires. The 7/7 bombers weren't kicking around the shopping precinct looking for something to do because the local youth centre shut down.

They were picked up, taken to the airport, flown to a training camp thousands of miles away and taught their craft by evil nutters.

We live in a country that now has (at least) 2.87 million Muslims, how this came to be is beyond me, it's more then the population of some Middle Eastern countries and it's set to double in 20 years.

With those kind of numbers, we can expect a lot more trouble.

Except from the extremely large number who are as law abiding as you or me.

And how many went to training camps dicked around and came home.

1920s ex squaddies join various militias in Ireland
1930s socialist Brits joined the socialists in Spain
1970s Brits join militias in Rhodesia
1990s Brit unemployed join Balkan mercenaries on all sides.

It's not that unusual. If these terrorists are really trying to bring us down as a country they're doing a piss poor job of it.

Quote: sootyj @ April 11 2012, 3:09 PM BST

Except from the extremely large number who are as law abiding as you or me.

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Except they're not. The number of Muslim men in jail is massively disproportionate to the Muslim population of Britain.

Take a huge number of unskilled people, living largely in poverty stricken ghettos and increase those numbers through breeding and immigration and combine it with extremely woeful educational standards where learning the Koran is more important then learning science and you have a recipe for disaster.

Notwithstanding that their entire culture flies in the face of everything we hold dear in this country - freedom of speech, equal opportunities, multi-cultural tolerance, a seperation of church and state, etc. - the Muslim population contributes very little in the way of tangible benefits for our society.

*wonders whether to share above post with Muslim friend who is a Justice of the Peace*

You know in the 1970s and 1980s there were an awful lot of Irish fellows in prison in the UK. And there was an effective campaign to recruit them to fight in a campaign of terror against the UK.

It might also be added that they were kept ignorant and fanatical by their religious beliefs...

Quote: Tursiops @ April 11 2012, 3:25 PM BST

*wonders whether to share above post with Muslim friend who is a Justice of the Peace*

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Can you ask him to verify these figures? -

In March 2010, 10,358 of the 85,184 people in prison were Muslim, a far higher proportion than that of Muslims in the population. The National Offender Management Service confirms that there has been a steep rise in the number of Muslims behind bars over the past two decades.

But is that relfexive of Muslim criminality or police prejudice?