Quote: Stylee TingTing @ March 28 2012, 10:56 PM BSTNice graphic! Here's another from the same site:
Sorry, I've been following this but that post is just fatuous.
I read the news today oh boy! Page 741
Quote: Oldrocker @ March 28 2012, 11:59 PM BSTSorry, I've been following this but that post is just fatuous.
So you got the point then. All the "stats" etc. are fatuous.
Not at all.
I don't want to get into a laboured dialogue but, in my view, responding with cogent and reasoned argument is often the better way.
Quote: Oldrocker @ March 29 2012, 12:20 AM BSTI don't want to get into a laboured dialogue but, in my view, responding with cogent and reasoned argument is often the better way.
Yes.. I don't want to get into a laboured dialogue either, but I note your selectivity in highlighting what you perceive as "fatuous", rather than "cogent and reasoned argument":
Quote: DaButt @ March 28 2012, 8:58 PM BSTYou're repetitious, for one.
And rude.
And annoying.
And unfunny.
And rather ignorant.
But most of all, you're a bit of a troll. A droll troll, at that.
Was your repeat of DaButt's post intended for me?
Well yes, it was for you.. to read, as an example of the fatuous, as contrast.. but not at you, if that's what you mean.
Quote: Stylee TingTing @ March 29 2012, 12:27 AM BSTYes.. I don't want to get into a laboured dialogue either, but I note your selectivity in highlighting what you perceive as "fatuous", rather than "cogent and reasoned argument":
I suppose that claiming that every official statistic supplied by DaButt from official US Government websites and census surveys is a complete lie could be described as 'fatuous'.
Taking the view that all statistics are total falsehoods means you can deny any numerical evidence that is presented to you as fact.
If, however, you cannot provide proof of your own argument, either through statistics or some other form of evidence and just deny everything to suit your own agenda, then you can kind of understand why no one is overwhelmed with your debating style.
Perfectly clear, thank you.
(not you RC, the one above)
>And Zimmerman absolutely did not incite the violence.
Oh yeah, there are many interpretations of what could have happened, but for example from Martin's viewpoint:
So there's this guy Martin, conducting his normal business, he has been visiting his father for a day or so at his father's fiancée or girlfriend's house, (who lives within this gated community), he is not trespassing or taking a short cut through the community (as has been implied in earlier reports), he has been to buy a few odds & ends & is returning home, in his mind he has done nothing wrong, when he is followed by a suspicious character who is not in any sort of uniform, and this is just after Martin has noticed signs which say Neighborhood Watch... implying suspicious people might be around.
So he hurries away, but the suspicious person is still following him, so suspecting that he might be being followed for a mugging, Martin turns and confronts the potential mugger and flattens him with a punch and then proceeds to make sure he won't get away, then stands up, ready to call for assistance, but the mugger draws a gun and shoots him dead.
It fits the KNOWN facts, disregarding Zimmerman's statements after the act, which cannot be relied upon since he has just killed a bloke and if he thinks that might have not been within his rights will make up a tale that shows him to be 'in the right'.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Shrug, I suggest we drop the whole subject and wait for the outcome of the proper enquiry.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ March 29 2012, 12:52 AM BSTI suppose that claiming that every official statistic supplied by DaButt from official US Government websites and census surveys is a complete lie could be described as 'fatuous'.
They/anyone can make up any stats they want (and they do) to provide "proof". That's my whole point. In a court of Law with a professional independent body of statistical analysts, the stats posted would be ripped to bits.
If you want to cherrypick the "facts" that suit you and your politics, that's up to you..
..but this is the internet. Trust no-one and nothing, especially spurious statistical tables posted as "facts".
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ March 29 2012, 12:52 AM BSTTaking the view that all statistics are total falsehoods means you can deny any numerical evidence that is presented to you as fact.
See above.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ March 29 2012, 12:52 AM BSTIf, however, you cannot provide proof of your own argument, either through statistics or some other form of evidence..
I could post anything and people would still cherrypick what they want to believe. You, for example. I'm sure there are plenty of stats out there that contradict the ones that you state are "facts".
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ March 29 2012, 12:52 AM BST..and just deny everything to suit your own agenda, then you can kind of understand why no one is overwhelmed with your debating style.
My agenda is anti-bullshit.. and that's it. This is the internet. Neither believe nor disbelieve anything.
"no one"
You mean yourself and some others who think like you?
Clique me up Scotty..
Quote: Stylee TingTing @ March 29 2012, 1:16 AM BSTI could post anything and people would still cherrypick what they want to believe. You, for example. I'm sure there are plenty of stats out there that contradict the ones that you state are "facts".
Facts are just that, facts - how we percieve and act upon the information is certainly up for interpretation and indeed, abuse.
As for the 'anti-bullshit' statement, the Trayvon incident has two sides to the story, but by only believeing and championing one version, based purely on anecdotal evidence because it suits a particular emotional or political leaning is also incorrect.
This debate has sparked many a viewpoint, most of them emotive and some have used it as an opportunity to goad or belittle an opposite point of view based on personal bigotry or conflicting ideology.
That is why we need both facts and stats, to separate the hysterical from the logical.
Quote: Stylee TingTing @ March 29 2012, 1:16 AM BSTTrust no-one and nothing, especially spurious statistical tables posted as "facts".
So this is some kind of Matrix world where nothing is what it seems? In the words of Keanu: whoa!
Quote: Stylee TingTing @ March 29 2012, 1:16 AM BSTThey/anyone can make up any stats they want (and they do) to provide "proof". That's my whole point. In a court of Law with a professional independent body of statistical analysts, the stats posted would be ripped to bits.
You do realize those statistics came from the Obama administration and you do realize that President Obama is an African-American, right? Please explain how and why he would manipulate the stats.
I can't see why it matters that the dead guy was black, what matters is if it was a lawful or an unlawful killing. The only racist thing I see here is the fact that the black community are making an issue about race.
Well statistically you're more likely to be executed on bad evidence if you're black.
And your murderer let off on poor evidence if you're black.
So it's kinda significant.
Though it doesn't cover how the 2 above areas could be influenced by higher degrees or percieved higher degrees of violent criminality in the black community.