Quote: keewik @ March 23 2012, 10:28 PM GMTWell, talking of silly, politically correct f**kers, Mr. K met a woman in our park today who was objecting to the planting of a monkeypuzzle tree because it would be dangerous to children.
I'd object on the grounds that they are, possibly, the ugliest tree it is possible to grow in this country.
I think palm trees are the silliest looking trees in this country.
Right.. Now ignore all the media frenzy, rhetoric, political manoeuvrings and other distortions of the Zimmerman-Martin death story.
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Here is the real information from the horses mouth.
http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html
It includes the police press releases, audio of all the relevant phone calls, including Zimmerman's and 7 witnesses. and all the details of what the Neighborhood Watch is supposed to do and the reports of prior burglaries and vandalisim in the gated community in recent years.
Which is summarised on this sheet.
Notice that Zimmerman exceeded his remit as a Neigborhood Watch Captain (see paragraph 10) in continuing to follow Martin, which was not required and likely to put him at risk. There can be no real doubt that Zimmerman caused this death by his excessive zeal in following Martin, it was unlikely to have occurred if he had followed the N-Watch guidelines and let the police handle the suspect. However this does not mean that the shooting was anything but self-defence.
The existence of the fight is confirmed by at least two of those phone-in witnesses who reported struggling on the ground before the shot. And one confirmed raised voices before the screams. From the phone audios it is still not possible to determine who screamed, several said it was a male voice, but since the people involved were both male that doesn't help.
A factor which is in the reports and in one phone call is that it was raining. This reduces the significance of the factor that Martin was wearing a hood (or that he put the hood up and walked away).
A second factor (not in the media woffle that I've read) is that the confrontation and shooting was in the BACK yards of the houses. This increases the probability that Martin's actions were suspicious.
So read & listen to the real undistorted facts before you make any attempt to make up your mind whether or not Martin's death was self-defence of Zimmerman.
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More real information http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf
Quote: billwill @ March 24 2012, 1:03 AM GMTRight.. Now ignore all the media frenzy, rhetoric, political manoeuvrings and other distortions of the Zimmerman-Martin death story.
~~~~~
Here is the real information from the horses mouth. http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html
It includes the police press releases, audio of all the relevant phone calls, including Zimmerman's and 7 witnesses. and all the details of what the Neighborhood Watch is supposed to do and the reports of prior burglaries and vandalisim in the gated community in recent years.Which is summarised on this sheet.
Thanks Bill, that makes things very clear.
Quote: Nogget @ March 24 2012, 6:30 AM GMTThanks Bill, that makes things very clear.
Quote: sootyj @ March 23 2012, 10:27 PM GMThttp://www.rnw.nl/english/bulletin/more-people-killed-or-injured-dutch-police
Live in fear. The armed Dutch police shot 5 people dead last year.
Killed 5 and wounded 29? Methinks the Dutch cops need more marksmanship training.
Maybe they shoot to stop rather than to kill?
Probably not, but it would be nice if so.
Quote: zooo @ March 24 2012, 1:12 PM GMTMaybe they shoot to stop rather than to kill?
Actually, you are correct, all police forces are trained to shoot to stop rather then kill.
In the old days, blasting a couple of rounds through someone's chest would kill them stone dead, but with advances in medical treatments and the speed in which they get into surgery, there is a bigger chance of survival.
Quote: billwill @ March 24 2012, 1:03 AM GMTA factor which is in the reports and in one phone call is that it was raining. This reduces the significance of the factor that Martin was wearing a hood (or that he put the hood up and walked away).
The hood is really no big deal. It seems that hoods are seen in a more negative light in the UK (judging by the shows I watch) but there's no such stigma over here.
Also the Dutch like the UK police I believe use a 9mm lower powered bullet. Designed to be more likely to wound than kill.
It's the US and Australians who go into coniptions about having a bullet big enough to kill.
Quote: sootyj @ March 24 2012, 1:30 PM GMTAlso the Dutch like the UK police I believe use a 9mm lower powered bullet. Designed to be more likely to wound than kill.
It's the US and Australians who go into coniptions about having a bullet big enough to kill.
It's all about stopping power, not killing power.
Quote: sootyj @ March 24 2012, 1:30 PM GMTAlso the Dutch like the UK police I believe use a 9mm lower powered bullet. Designed to be more likely to wound than kill.
FWIW, Trayvon Martin was killed by a 9mm round.
Quote: sootyj @ March 24 2012, 1:30 PM GMTAlso the Dutch like the UK police I believe use a 9mm lower powered bullet.
No, they use a round nose bullet less likely to expand. This creates a smaller wound channel but there is a risk of over penetration and the bullet passing through the target and hitting an innocent. You cannot use 'low powered' rounds as they will not cycle the action reliably.
Quote: DaButt @ March 24 2012, 1:44 PM GMTIt's all about stopping power, not killing power.
Technically it's about shot placement. Anything along the central nervous system will drop people like a bag of cement. Place your shot accurately and the size and power of the bullet becomes inconsequential.
Anyone else getting hard reading all this bullet and gun info? Zooo? You're a little bit hard, aren't you Zooo?
All 9 millimeters of me is erect.
Was it the use of the word penetration? That usually does it.
Quite right that Matthew should make fun of people talking about a subject to an absurdist level. Thank goodness we don't fetishise and over analyse anything else on here.
