Quote: DaButt @ February 22 2012, 12:53 PM GMT0.3% of 311 million is never going to be less than 700,000.
Perhaps it's outdated census data
I read the news today oh boy! Page 682
All my smoking friends who work in bars are extremely annoyed that as well as minimum wage, aggressive customers, dodgy hours, etc, they can't have a crafty puff on a mate's ciggie while they work. Fair enough for non smokers to not want to be in smoky rooms but don't see what the issue with having smoking and non smoking bars or rooms is
Quote: AJGO @ February 22 2012, 12:55 PM GMTAll my smoking friends who work in bars are extremely annoyed that as well as minimum wage, aggressive customers, dodgy hours, etc, they can't have a crafty puff on a mate's ciggie while they work. Fair enough for non smokers to not want to be in smoky rooms but don't see what the issue with having smoking and non smoking bars or rooms is
I suppose the reasoning is that staff who don't want to smoke will get exposed to second-hand smoke just so they can earn a wage. There's probably a better solution than sending everyone outside, though.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ February 22 2012, 12:52 PM GMTWell, apart from fights and so on,if you drink, it only damages your own body, so that's self inflicted. I'm not anti-smoking, but I don't see what's so wrong about you poor sugar lumps having to stand outside to have a fag!
As you sit in your warm pub staring at the elderly pensioner trying to light his Woodbine on a freezing cold sleety night, do you laugh and point at him? You unfeeling monster!!!
If non-smokers really care about their health, then they shouldn't go to pubs in the first place. Some bits of the smoking ban have been great but others have been awful.
Here is what I would like to see - smoking areas in bars and private members clubs, a smoking section on public transport journeys lasting more then 4 hours and that's it.
Quote: Harridan @ February 22 2012, 12:58 PM GMTI suppose the reasoning is that staff who don't want to smoke will get exposed to second-hand smoke just so they can earn a wage. There's probably a better solution than sending everyone outside, though.
Indeed, and that is to be respected, but they could work in the non-smoking bars or sections. The vast majority of people I know who work in pubs smoke and really resent this across-the-board law
Quote: Harridan @ February 22 2012, 12:55 PM GMTPerhaps it's outdated census data
40 or 50 years outdated to arrive at that figure.
I've heard that the average African-American male has between a 1/20 and 1/50 chance of being murdered in his lifetime. That makes one murder a month look like a walk in the park.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ February 22 2012, 1:00 PM GMTAs you sit in your warm pub staring at the elderly pensioner trying to light his Woodbine on a freezing cold sleety night, do you laugh and point at him? You unfeeling monster!!!
I try to avoid looking at old people in general. Horrible.
Quote: Harridan @ February 22 2012, 12:58 PM GMTI suppose the reasoning is that staff who don't want to smoke will get exposed to second-hand smoke just so they can earn a wage. There's probably a better solution than sending everyone outside, though.
A little tent on the roof??
Quote: Matthew Stott @ February 22 2012, 1:06 PM GMTA little tent on the roof??
I was more thinking parallel dimension in the broom closet...
Quote: Matthew Stott @ February 22 2012, 1:06 PM GMTA little tent on the roof??
Nope, the rules about beer gardens and enclosed shelters would never allow smokers to have a tent. The legislation has been designed to piss people off as much as possible, combined with the amount of tax charged on tobacoo, the Government has done everything it can to penalise the working classes dissaude people from smoking.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ February 22 2012, 1:10 PM GMTthe Government has done everything it can to penalise the working classes dissaude people from smoking.
why do you think it's anti working class?
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ February 22 2012, 1:00 PM GMTAs you sit in your warm pub staring at the elderly pensioner trying to light his Woodbine on a freezing cold sleety night, do you laugh and point at him? You unfeeling monster!!!
You knew my dad?? 
The ban was brought out in Ireland (and Scotland?) first off and surprisingly was pretty much accepted by the people I know anyway, many smokers, including myself as an ex smoker, don't want to be covered in other peoples fug. But...there should be facilities for those who are still willing to puff away together, it is after all, a legal, highly profitable to the Government substance.
Quote: Harridan @ February 22 2012, 1:13 PM GMTwhy do you think it's anti working class?
The smoking ban devised by government ministers because cigarette smoking was on the decline amongst the middle classes. This was a top down decision that effected working class people more then any other social grouping in the UK.
The government also lied to us, they stated that it would only be a partial ban up until the day of the vote, until Patricia Hewitt betrayed everyone and undemocratically imposed a full ban.
The protection of the workers, was if you excuse the pun, a smoke screen. We allow all sorts of dangerous occupations in the UK, where workers are exposed to far worse then some second hand smoke. The second hand smoke statistics used to back up the ban, were also flawed.
Mob rule, lies and dictatorial politicians triumphed over human rights and democracy.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ February 22 2012, 1:19 PM GMTThe smoking ban devised by government ministers because cigarette smoking was on the decline amongst the middle classes. This was a top down decision that effected working class people more then any other social grouping in the UK.
The government also lied to us, they stated that it would only be a partial ban up until the day of the vote, until Patricia Hewitt betrayed everyone and undemocratically imposed a full ban.
The protection of the workers, was if you excuse the pun, a smoke screen. We allow all sorts of dangerous occupations in the UK, where workers are exposed to far worse then some second hand smoke. The second hand smoke statistics used to back up the ban, were also flawed.
Mob rule, lies and dictatorial politicians triumphed over human rights and democracy.
Yeah it has nothing to do with that whole secondary smoke and cancer thing.... 
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ February 22 2012, 1:19 PM GMTThe smoking ban devised by government ministers because cigarette smoking was on the decline amongst the middle classes. This was a top down decision that effected working class people more then any other social grouping in the UK.
The government also lied to us, they stated that it would only be a partial ban up until the day of the vote, until Patricia Hewitt betrayed everyone and undemocratically imposed a full ban.
The protection of the workers, was if you excuse the pun, a smoke screen. We allow all sorts of dangerous occupations in the UK, where workers are exposed to far worse then some second hand smoke. The second hand smoke statistics used to back up the ban, were also flawed.
Mob rule, lies and dictatorial politicians triumphed over human rights and democracy.
So you think it was an intentional move to stamp out a behaviour that middle class people found distasteful in working class people?
Quote: Shandonbelle @ February 22 2012, 1:16 PM GMTThe ban was brought out in Ireland (and Scotland?) first off and surprisingly was pretty much accepted by the people I know anyway, many smokers, including myself as an ex smoker, don't want to be covered in other peoples fug. But...there should be facilities for those who are still willing to puff away together, it is after all, a legal, highly profitable to the Government substance.
Germany has overtuned their smoking ban, the Dutch largely ignore it and the Spanish introduced rules over which pubs are allowed. Besides, Scottish and Irish pubs have plenty of room for beer gardens and stand alone structures, in the middle of London, you are forced to go outside.
I'm glad that smoking has been banned on public transport and restaurants - but pubs are places that sell poison - it's like saying you don't want to smell pot when you are buying your heroin.