I have new insight and sympathy now that a friend has told me that she's going to become a man, but there's one thing I can't wrap my head around:
What is up with men who become women but decide that they're going to become lesbians because they like to have sex with women? And vice-versa? I understand that they identify as a different sex but it seems like it would be easier, cheaper and less painful to just use their genitalia as it was originally intended.
But your gender isn't anything to do with who you want to shag is it. I'm happy to be a woman not purely because I fancy men. It's about feeling at home/right in your body.
I think, because who you are and who you're attracted to are different things. If you felt like a female but were born a male then even if you were attracted to women you would still feel like you were lying about who you were
Quote: AJGO @ February 22 2012, 1:45 AM GMTI think, because who you are and who you're attracted to are different things. If you felt like a female but were born a male then even if you were attracted to women you would still feel like you were lying about who you were
You see, when stuff like this happens, that's what makes me think there's more going on then just being born the wrong gender and that a genuine chemical imbalance in the brain might be the route cause.
Though I'm also wondering if we're giving this issue too much attention, the percentage of gender reassignements per head of population is really quite low. Yeah, it's sad that a small minority has to suffer for a few years in childhood, but it's nothing compared to kids who have much more pressing medical conditions.
Well, I'm not an expert or have experience in this area so please don't quote me as if it's representative! I guess in the case that provoked this debate there are lots of unanswered questions. But also, there's not an ordered list of human needs that should be addressed- this is a really complex subject and so maybe needs looking at more closely than others so that as humans we can learn more about ourselves
Quote: Harridan @ February 22 2012, 12:03 AM GMTIt's quite obvious you don't know any trans people and I think that in general, if you're not queer, don't know any queer people, and have never read any queer theory, then your opinion on gender reallocation is irrelevant at best. I don't want a debate, I just couldn't let that stand.
Unlike that vulgar, ignorant Renegade Taxis, I have shitloads of tranny pooftah friends. The campest ones who constantly ponce about can be somewhat annoying, whereas others who don't mince at all seem much more genuine. Most want to keep their dicks. A few have undergone surgery in Thailand to get the balls cut off, the dick spliced and a vagina made. In all cases except two, this surgery was to please family and boyfriends. A big risk is dodgy (cheap) silicone breast implants that can leak. I cannot match their beauty. I just look like a long-haired bloke in a dress. I didn't wear my wig for a year once, and it contracted such a severe dose of mildew that I had to throw it away. Then I got a nasty eye infection from sharing eyeliner. And I got stabbed twice in my fake tits (football socks in a lacy bra) one night in a bar by an American oilman. It's a hazardous business all right, but at the end of the day, there's usually a few pretty women putting their hands up your dress to see what you've got there. If only I had been born Scottish.
This is my 3453rd post BTW.
Cough ...splutter, love you Ken! 
Quote: Harridan @ February 22 2012, 12:51 AM GMTIf you promise to stop saying stupid things I promise to stop pointing at them.
Stupid things like Christians being the least persecuted group in all of human history?
Quote: chipolata @ February 22 2012, 8:36 AM GMTStupid things like Christians being the least persecuted group in all of human history?
Comparatively, Christians are under-persecuted. I didn't go back to the thread to discuss it because I didn't want to further derail it from being about Ricky Gervais. I'm struggling to think of a group who has had it easier. But really my point was that the divide between how much Christians fetishise their persecution and how much they have historically been persecuted is a vast chasm. Persecutions under the Romans they were literally asking for it, (they masqueraded as a political group and intentionally misled people into thinking they were incestuous cannibals so that they could be martyrs) and it was only Nero and Domitian who killed them before it became the religion of the Empire and stayed that way forever. Certainly Christians have suffered in modern times, but no more than other religious or ethnic groups.
Quote: DaButt @ February 22 2012, 1:37 AM GMTWhat is up with men who become women but decide that they're going to become lesbians because they like to have sex with women? And vice-versa? I understand that they identify as a different sex but it seems like it would be easier, cheaper and less painful to just use their genitalia as it was originally intended.
I think Zooo and AJGO have the right idea. Gender and sexuality are often lumped in together (not least by the LGBT grouping, which I've always found patronising and unhelpful) but they aren't necessarily related. That's the problem with a gender binary - we're encouraged to see people as A or B and match them with A or B, ignoring the fact that there are 24 other letters you might be. I always struggle with the identifiers 'lesbian' or 'bisexual' because I prefer partners of a certain gender, not a certain genitalia. I don't fancy men, I don't fancy women, I fancy those people over there, and sometimes they are men and somettimes they are women and sometimes they're both and sometimes they're neither.
Some people make life changing decisions because often they wish to change their life. A lot of people, in all sorts of situations, who don't understand these choices, look over the fence or the chasm and make judgements. I guess it is to do with the DNA coded herd mentality wired into animal vision that often sees 'other' as threatening. Personally I'm going to vote for the first group.
Quote: Harridan @ February 22 2012, 9:15 AM GMTComparatively, Christians are under-persecuted.
Ok that's factually wrong. In the same way bleach doesn't taste of raspberries wrong.
Christians maybe less persecuted in Europe, Americas and Oceanic countries. But in Islamist and communist countries it's viewed as an apostate faith. With executions, torture and arrests.
It makes Western suspicions of Islam look like chicken feed.
Might I reccomend you read up on what Amnesty International and the Red Cross have to say on the subject.
Also your use of under, implies they should be more persecuted,
I tink in European history you may well find the Christians persecuted the hell out of each other!!
Quote: sootyj @ February 22 2012, 9:47 AM GMTAlso your use of under, implies they should be more persecuted,
Yes, but not the Catholics!
Quote: Harridan @ February 22 2012, 9:15 AM GMTChristians fetishise their persecution
Every group that's ever been persecuted fetishise their persecution. It's what you do. Hell, I long for a spot of persecution so I can fetishise it.
Your error is the typical liberal error of ranking the persecution of trendy groups like gays and transgenders above that of those persecuted because of their religious beliefs, probably because liberals have a sneering contempt for these beliefs. Execept Muslims, who get a remarkably easy ride from the intelligentsia.
Quote: chipolata @ February 22 2012, 9:49 AM GMTEvery group that's ever been persecuted fetishise their persecution. It's what you do. Hell, I long for a spot of persecution so I can fetishise it.
Stick around! 
Quote: Marc P @ February 22 2012, 9:42 AM GMTSome people make life changing decisions because often they wish to change their life. A lot of people, in all sorts of situations, who don't understand these choices, look over the fence or the chasm and make judgements.
I'd bloody love to have a chasm nearby I could look over.
Quote: Marc P @ February 22 2012, 9:50 AM GMTStick around!
I'm unpersecutable on the BCG. I'm The Original Teflon Poster. 