Nothing to do with being marginalised, that would be in there with all the other reasons of course on why women don't get a foot in the door, but men and women are wired differently and that has to be taken into account.
Women on Panel Shows Page 4
Quote: Shandonbelle @ February 21 2012, 12:07 AM GMTNothing to do with being marginalised, that would be in there with all the other reasons of course on why women don't get a foot in the door, but men and women are wired differently and that has to be taken into account.
Men and women are not wired differently, you should read that book too, it's by a neurobiologist talking about how this erroneous concept of male and female brains has crept into the public consciousness, and how people blame social conventions on pseudo-neuroscience.
http://www.garryjlee.co.uk/2012/02/07/mock-the-week-sexist-or-simply-lacking-female-appeal/
I wrote something about this general topic (focused around Mock The Week) around 2 weeks ago, if anyone wants to have a read.
Quote: Garry Lee @ February 21 2012, 12:10 AM GMThttp://www.garryjlee.co.uk/2012/02/07/mock-the-week-sexist-or-simply-lacking-female-appeal/
Yep, that's exactly what I was getting at.
Quote: Harridan @ February 21 2012, 12:09 AM GMTMen and women are not wired differently, you should read that book too, it's by a neurobiologist talking about how this erroneous concept of male and female brains has crept into the public consciousness, and how people blame social conventions on pseudo-neuroscience.
I'll go with Thomas Dolby...he blinded me with science too 
May I just say I do love Josie Long, I thought she was very funny on Mark Watson's improv show and I did enjoy her on Dave's One Night Stand, and if she or any of her fellow female comics are finding it hard to break into panel shows for any reason I do sympathise. I personally would love to see her on more panel shows, but I do disagree with what's been said here.
Quote: Harridan @ February 20 2012, 5:35 PM GMTShe posits that women comedians are not less numerous than male comedian...
Is this really true? I enjoy stand-up on all levels from pubs to clubs to stadiums to TV and surely this is exaggeration. I'm not a stand-up myself but I can't believe that's true, especially in the UK.
Quote: Harridan @ February 20 2012, 5:35 PM GMT...but that they get less visibility for two reasons: 1. They get beaten down by the constant sexism and give up.
Not sure I understand this bit. Did she mean sexism on behalf of those who book contestant or of male stand-ups on shows?
Quote: Harridan @ February 20 2012, 5:35 PM GMT2. TV gigs that should go to female comedians go to female TV presenters, actors or reality stars.
Not true. Some panel shows book exclusively comedians and comedy writers and to my knowledge I've never seen a strictly all male comedy panel show, and other panel shows book a mixture of comedians and popular figures. There are loads of popular males who are not comics booked on panel shows but are they taking jobs away from male comics?
Here's a list I began making of male non-comics I've seen on panel shows and it's so long I only stopped because I got bored... Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Alex Zane, Johnny Vaughan, Louis Walsh, Christopher Biggins, Eamonn Holmes, Richard Madeley, Louie Spence, Gok Wan, Coolio, Joe Swash, David Van Day, Dave Berry, Anton Du Beke, George Lamb, Tito Jackson, Mat Horne, Dermot O'Leary, Phillip Schofield, Chris Moyles, Peter Jones, Chipmunk, Jedward and on and on and on...
We've come such a long way when it comes equal opportunities. On panel shows we see both genders, all races, all sexual orientations and people of different beliefs and lifestyle choices, isn't that progress enough? If we begin vetoing the quota of each don't we defeat the object of having equal opportunities? There are lots of factors that are considered when it comes to booking panel show contestants such as budget, availability, the dynamic of the guests as a group. I can't believe that gender is important to those in charge of booking these guests.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ February 20 2012, 9:39 PM GMTHolly Walsh I think typifies this type of new female comic. She's not particularly funny or interesting, but neither is she outrageous or controversial, she just seems to be there, doing not a lot. (except waiting for the cringeworthy pity laugh from the audience presumably)
I really want to disagree with this... but I fear you may be right. 
(
Quote: Harridan @ February 20 2012, 5:35 PM GMTthey get less visibility for two reasons: 1. They get beaten down by the constant sexism and give up. 2. TV gigs that should go to female comedians go to female TV presenters, actors or reality stars.
Wow. She may have a point.
As much as I like looking at Jamelias when they're on panel shows, if they're taking work from good female comics then I'd be quite happy to never look at either of them again.
Quote: Elliott Gill @ February 21 2012, 2:13 AM GMTHere's a list I began making of male non-comics I've seen on panel shows and it's so long I only stopped because I got bored... Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Alex Zane, Johnny Vaughan, Louis Walsh, Christopher Biggins, Eamonn Holmes, Richard Madeley, Louie Spence, Gok Wan, Coolio, Joe Swash, David van Day, Dave Berry, Anton Du Beke, George Lamb, Tito Jackson, Mat Horne, Dermot O'Leary, Phillip Schofield, Chris Moyles, Peter Jones, Chipmunk, Jedward and on and on and on...
Wow, you've gone back about 5 years for some of those!
Quote: zooo @ February 21 2012, 2:17 AM GMTWow, you've gone back about 5 years for some of those!
No, I just watch Dave 
Hehe!
Quote: Claire Hardiker @ February 20 2012, 11:28 PM GMTIn Australia we don't have many panel shows (Spicks and Specks, Good News Week, Gruen Transfer etc) and they are now becoming an endangered species (since we don't have that many left)
Even so these shows introduced us to local talent both male and female. Spicks and Specks in particular showcased a lot of female talent including Denise Scott, Fiona O'Loughlan, Cal Wilson and many more female talent that I can't name right now.
Just last night I watched a funny episode with Magda Szubanski from Kath and Kim. She is a very funny lady
Also they introduced us to many funny women who were musicians, stage actors etc.
If Australia can find brilliant female talent for their panel shows then why can't the UK?
I supose it is a matter of opinion, I personally don't find some of those you listed very funny.
The women we have on our very few panel shows here possibly do seem more visable, but we also have a smaller industry overall. I get the impression that most of them have worked closley together for years and in some cases are friends outside of work. Perhaps that helps to make everyone feel more comfortable.
Having said that, in general I just don't find women as funny as men. I'm not saying that no woman can be as funny as a man, there are women who I find just as funny as males. Overall though I find a higher percentage of men funny than I do women.
Perhaps in a year or two I will find the opposite. Maybe from the current group of people in that industry, men are just funnier.
Also I don't think it wrong to say there are some things men are generally better at than women or vice versa. Of course no matter someone's gender there will always be people who excel in their chosen industry.
*prepares for torches and pitchforks coming my way*
Quote: Elliott Gill @ February 21 2012, 2:13 AM GMTNot sure I understand this bit. Did she mean sexism on behalf of those who book contestant or of male stand-ups on shows?
She meant the incessant comments about how women aren't funny. She says at a conservative estimate she hears a variation on that ("I don't normally like women comedians, but you were alright") about 300 times a year. I'm not remotely surprised by that figure (except, perhaps, by how low it is).
Quote: Elliott Gill @ February 21 2012, 2:13 AM GMTNot true. Some panel shows book exclusively comedians and comedy writers and to my knowledge I've never seen a strictly all male comedy panel show, and other panel shows book a mixture of comedians and popular figures. There are loads of popular males who are not comics booked on panel shows but are they taking jobs away from male comics?
We've come such a long way when it comes equal opportunities. On panel shows we see both genders, all races, all sexual orientations and people of different beliefs and lifestyle choices, isn't that progress enough? If we begin vetoing the quota of each don't we defeat the object of having equal opportunities? There are lots of factors that are considered when it comes to booking panel show contestants such as budget, availability, the dynamic of the guests as a group. I can't believe that gender is important to those in charge of booking these guests.
I see all-male panel shows all the time. Mock the Week, QI, HIGNFY all frequently have shows without any female guests.
While I agree that male non-comics appear on panel shows very frequently too, there are often several male comics also on the panel, so male comics in general aren't being under-represented through the inclusion of a presenter. As most panel shows only ever seem to have one woman on at a time it does skew things to have that woman be a presenter rather than a comic.
As 50% of the population (and let's assume that women make up about 50% of comics too, just to make it easy) it is strange that less than 20% of panel show guests are women. Women aren't a minority group, or even close to being a minority group, and I don't think that female comics are a minority in any real sense either. The reason it's a problem that those women making it on are not comics is that panel show guests are recycled so if a producer is choosing guests based on how witty they were, they're more likely to choose the male comedian than the female actress. Until the numbers even out a bit more I think we do need either a bit of tokenism so that female comics and presenters can get on at the same time, or just for producers to pick female comics instead.
All makes sense except for the 'let's assume 50% of comics are female' bit, because I'm pretty sure that is nothing like the case, not on established comics at least. I'd say in few years time the balance may be more equal, because I'd say the demand is there already but not the supply. I'm sure producers would love more females on comedy panel shows, but I doubt they can find them tbh. What a mainstream channel won't do is take a punt on an unknown who's only appeared in pubs. The profile needs to be there first, usually.
Having said that I totally agree that some male comics are on panel shows only because they are part of the all male club, however modern and liberal they pretend to be. Many of these could and should be replaced by the next wave of female comics, as they certainly could not be weaker than the likes of Howard and Addison or Parsons etc. But I still won't watch, because I hate panel shows. (Except QI and HIGNFY occasionally).
I am still inclined to think that it comes down less to opportunity than to the taking of opportunities. I have seen plenty of unmemorable female comics on panel shows (Josie Long came across as a slack-jawed chav on that Bubble thing David Mitchell did), whereas the likes of Ross Noble and David Doherty essentially became stars overnight on the strength of a panel show appearance. If you can deliver the goods gender is irrelevant, as Sarah Millican has demonstrated; and it is why non-comediennes such as Victoria Coren and Sue Perkins keep being invited back (and indeed male non-comedians like Chris Packham and Nick Hewer).
I think that we need to take a step back here. The problem isn't so much in panel shows - they play their part, but really just book whoever's famous - but who is making a successful career of being one of the reasonably top-level comedians from which the panel show pool is plucked from in the first place. I am struggling to think of many such female comics.
On reflection, if more female comics on panel shows means more Josie Long on panel shows, then I think panel shows should stick with Jamelia, who is at least sometimes accidentally funny.