Quote: James Williams @ January 16, 2008, 4:17 PMIt is a sticky subject (NPI) but to mindlessly dismiss another person or culture is just wrong - it ignores the incredibly, incredibly complex issues that have been explored a bit even on here.
Totally agree. I think we are all disgusted by the crime.
The only difference is some of us see there are also problems on the other side that need to be addressed too.
Quote: ContainsNuts @ January 16, 2008, 4:18 PMApologies, by looking at the whole picture I may come across of supporting his actions which I'm not. I'm really against it.
I'll try a questionnaire, see how many yes's you get?
We want to prevent child porn?
As it stands we are not preventing people seeking child porn, just encouraging them not to get caught?
By trying to understand why people seek child porn we might see trends that can prevent new offenders?
Preventing people seeking child porn in the first place is better than only punishing people once they've got caught?
Yes.
I think this is a more civilised response. I mean, we're dealing with sick issues, but if we're going to say "just lock the perverts up" - at least without seeking to understand the problem - we may as well abandon all pretense of civilisation and shoot the f**kers.
Agreed ContainNuts. Sadly not many peeps are prepared to go to the doctor & say "I have a penchant for child porn. Help me".
So I guess we need to make it easier for them to be able too.
Look there are worse cases out there than this. We all know that.
he was caught, convicted & sentenced.
He done his crime paid his given time. However I dont want to look at the guy on my brand new 42" plasma, due to the images it will conjur up for me. We are all entitled to our opinion. I dont think I can add anymore to this discussion really.
Maybe we should go back to the bible times. We could f**k our kids, sisters, brothers & camels then.
Yep Charley, I think the punishment more than fitted the crime. I shouldn't think he'll be on our screens for a while. I thought he came across as quite a duplicitous and self-justifying man, really. It was a classic. "I used to be a bastard, but I'm fine now." Psychiatrist's wet dream.
I did not watch it so have no comment on the interview.
Billy Connolly was abused as a child. I wonder if that may have had an affect on his wife whilst giving the interview.
Quote: Charley @ January 16, 2008, 4:30 PMHowever I dont want to look at the guy on my brand new 42" plasma, due to the images it will conjur up for me. We are all entitled to our opinion. I dont think I can add anymore to this discussion really.
That is fair enough and totally up to you. That's my point, we all deal with everything in our own ways. I respect that and I'm sorry to hear about your friend.
I do feel, Charley, that you've only made the emotional points you have so you could mention that you've got a 42" plasma at some point. F**king show-off!
Quote: ContainsNuts @ January 16, 2008, 4:35 PMThat is fair enough and totally up to you. That's my point, we all deal with everything in our own ways. I respect that and I'm sorry to hear about your friend.
I do feel, Charley, that you've only made the emotional points you have so you could mention that you've got a 42" plasma at some point. F**king show-off!
Did I mention that. Gosh. I had no idea I said about my 42" Plasma. Black flat screen 178" viewing angle with oodles of pixels & shit.
Quote: Charley @ January 16, 2008, 4:36 PM
Did I mention that. Gosh. I had no idea I said about my 42" Plasma. Black flat screen 178" viewing angle with oodles of pixels & shit.
178" viewing angle? Shit, if that was degrees instead of inches, you'd be only 8º off being able to view it from side on!
Quote: ContainsNuts @ January 16, 2008, 4:18 PMWe want to prevent child porn?
Yes.
Quote: ContainsNuts @ January 16, 2008, 4:18 PMAs it stands we are not preventing people seeking child porn, just encouraging them not to get caught?
Ish...
Quote: ContainsNuts @ January 16, 2008, 4:18 PMBy trying to understand why people seek child porn we might see trends that can prevent new offenders?
No.
Quote: ContainsNuts @ January 16, 2008, 4:18 PMPreventing people seeking child porn in the first place is better than only punishing people once they've got caught?
Errr, I don't think it's as simple as that, but I suppose so...
Quote: Godot Taxis @ January 16, 2008, 5:03 PM178" viewing angle? Shit, if that was degrees instead of inches, you'd be only 8º off being able to view it from side on!
Well I am not an expert. You know what I meant
She wasn't able to type any more a detailed answer than that.
Too busy thinking of a 178-incher.
Quote: James Williams @ January 16, 2008, 4:17 PM1) "Why don't I go talk to the NSPCC"?! I'm making an argument and I think you're far too het up. None of your points add up. I want you to quantify for me how much Langham has increased the chances of someone else suffering similar abuse by looking at a free image in the public domain. A great deal? A little bit? You can't, I can't, nobody can, which is my point:
My point was that you should ask the experts in their field whether someone looking at an image of child pornography results in an increased likelyhood that other children will be harmed.
Quote: James Williams @ January 16, 2008, 4:17 PMit's a tricky subject. I'm drawing no conclusions other than this, and questioning your original opinion that people who look at such images are treated 'too leniently'. Yes, it's a crime, but the punishment has to fit the crime and so the weight of the crime has to weighed. You seem to overestimate the gravity of the crime IMO if you think Langham's sentence was lenient.
Well we're never going to agree on this. I can't seperate the image from the circumstances that created it
Quote: James Williams @ January 16, 2008, 4:17 PM2)I did mention human rights, but I made no mention of the Human Rights Act. Ridiculous to say I did, let alone to assert I misunderstand it to boot.
Well what did you mean as i took your words to mean that there would be a legal problem. This is what you said.
'If we look at someone's human rights not to have someone look at footage of them being molested as a child, we are on very shaky ground indeed.'
Quote: James Williams @ January 16, 2008, 4:17 PM3)Your opinion of this taboo is that is "not bad". Really, your arguments are very simplistic. Either something is good or it is bad with you! Besides, your observation, however valid, is entirely irrelevant, as my point was that taboos are often difficult to pin down, and are often based on an in-built reaction fostered by nature and society. They usually involve concepts at the root of what we consider 'wrong' and 'forbidden', and so people do not feel the need to analyse the behaviours of those that break taboos - why should they? 'It's just wrong.'
I think its wrong to f**k children. That taboo wasn't hard to pin down. I like the idea we shouldn't judge based on our morals or preconceptions. How should we judge then? Sounds like liberal bull shit to me to be honest.
Quote: James Williams @ January 16, 2008, 4:17 PM4)You are tying yourself in knots here with your inability to understand that other cultures have different belief systems, and that to judge them purely on the basis of what you judge to be 'right' or 'wrong', because of the society you live, in is ignorant.
I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous. If you can't see why its ridiculous then go and ask another scoiety.
Quote: James Williams @ January 16, 2008, 4:17 PMThe irony, of course, is that a similar failure to understand other cultures (like ours) is partly why we get things like terrorism. We can see that the subjugation of women is clearly incorrect, but there are many other aspects to these cultures, and they have systems that operate wholly differently to ours. Saying that one system is better than another is like saying that an orange is better than a banana. You and I believe it's obvious our system is superior to many others, and we could give statistics to prove it, no doubt, but until these societies evolve it is careless to judge them by our standards. I'm not endorsing any of the shenanigans other countries get up to, but to dismiss another country's culture as worthless in one fell swoop is hopelessly crude.
When did I ever do that. I said I ignore other societies in relation to a very small area of social politics namely the treatment of women and children. Unless you think I should seriously consider carrying out female circumcision and arranged marriages. I ignore them preciously because I know their views. I don't ignore things without learning about the subject first.
Quote: James Williams @ January 16, 2008, 4:17 PM6)You are placing your own society's value-judgements on others again: "Would I ever consider carrying one out (an honour killing). Of course not." Would a Muslim drink vodka? Of course not. What's your point? Different societies have different ways of behaving. But to dismiss them is outrageously arrogant.
The only arrogance here is yours. I take it that you approve all the acts of all the other societies in the world cos they don't know better and have to 'evolve' 
Thats arrogance. Bottle it, you can sell it to politicians 
There have been plenty of examples in history that studying criminal minds can help prevent future crimes happening again, so I'm surprised its being dismissed so readily here. Anything to try to improve the situation.
Quote: ContainsNuts @ January 16, 2008, 6:07 PMThere have been plenty of examples in history that studying criminal minds can help prevent future crimes happening again, so I'm surprised its being dismissed so readily here. Anything to try to improve the situation.
I give you that CN... Research has to be done into a crime to assist in preventing it.
Knowledge is power.