Strikes and such like

So what do people think about last wednesdays strikes? Have they got a point? Is this the 70s all\over? Should Clarkson be run over infront of his family (and his mistresses?)

Sootyj thinks;

1 The era of retiring on 65 on a decent income is well over. But that means there needs to be enabling people to work longer or buy homes cheaper or something.
Elder poverty will prove to be a hi cost.

2 The government has broken virtually every deal with public sector workers. This should be acknowledged and compensated for.

3 If you make conditions rough enough for public sector workers (nurses, physios etc etc). Then people will leave these jobs and stop entering them, that's not a good thing. Especially when the international job market is better in Australia and US.

4 Saving money on taxes in exchange for rubbish public service is no saving.

5 People should be protesting for better private sector pensions (they used to be be good till the funds were wasted), not worse public sector ones.

Quote: sootyj @ December 3 2011, 12:31 PM GMT

5 People should be protesting for better private sector pensions (they used to be be good till the funds were wasted), not worse public sector ones.

View original

This. On current financial assumptions the case for reforming public sector pensions is debatable at best; it is more about keeping the playground level by lowering it. Poor work pension provision is in time going to place an enormous burden on the public benefits provision.

Excellent article by Anthony Hilton, City columnist in the Evening Standard, dispels some of the misconceptions about public sector pensions:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-business/article-24015553-myth-of-public-pension-sir-humphreys.do

Key worker housing, nursing 2000 and now pensions.

If the government wants no public sector worker, they're going about it the right way.

I think the strikes are very just, and inevitable. For the Govt. to be seen penalising almost half the country's workers for the imprisonable actions of a few hundred greedy bankers who got away with it is sick making. All we need for them to bring the country out in open revolt is to do what it wants to do and take away the 50% income tax level for the rich. That will really rub it in.

Yes the age of retirement needs changing, but to pay for it I agree with Labour's plan to put a bonus tax on bankers. That seems the fairest way, considering how the bankers have benefited while the rest of us have lost, and they were the cause of the crash. We will now see how brave Cameron is in his backing of his strong idelogies. I reckon he's on a collision course for disaster unless he tones it down, a lot. Cameron, you are in a COALITION mate, not that you'd notice with these pitifully weak Libdems.

The 'recession' has given the Tories the great excuse to do what they always wanted to do - take a big shit all over the working classes

They've always wanted to do the stuff they're doing now but didn't have the guts to carry most of it out

Now they can! Cos it's not their fault

It's the recession!

They're loving it

So people can sit back and be shat on by these arseholes or they can fight it

Why should hard working people who do very important worthwhile jobs be made to pay for the failings of others?

The whole issue is being argued & strike actions taken without any real data available.

For instance the public workers are up in arms about an extra 3% contribution to their pension, but:
1. What percentage do they pay now?
2. What percentage does the average private sector worker pay towards his/her pension.

What are the pension scales for public sector workers?

How many of the private sector 'final-salary' pension schemes still exist?

etc etc.

Believe me, both Public Sector & big firm private sector workers have very cushy pension systems compared to the average self-employed tradesman (or small Limited company business).

Nowadays, there are no constraints (AFAIK) that prevent anyone from opening and contributing to a private pension plan (with tax concessions); the results of which are totally up to what you pay in and the way your fund is managed, but you get to choose which fund holds your bit and you can switch it to other funds & managers if you are displeased with your current one. When I was starting out as a free-lance consultant, there were no such private pension concessions; yes you could save in a fund but you got no tax relief on that unlike now.

I think they unions are flogging a dead horse.
They should of had a satirical day of action.
Marching through the UK's majors cities with plaques saying;

"Please take all my pension"
"I want to work for free"
"It is ALL my fault"
"Punish me"

Quote: sootyj @ December 3 2011, 12:31 PM GMT

So what do people think about last wednesdays strikes? Have they got a point? Is this the 70s all\over? Should Clarkson be run over infront of his family (and his mistresses?)

Sootyj thinks;

1 The era of retiring on 65 on a decent income is well over. But that means there needs to be enabling people to work longer or buy homes cheaper or something.
Elder poverty will prove to be a hi cost.

2 The government has broken virtually every deal with public sector workers. This should be acknowledged and compensated for.

3 If you make conditions rough enough for public sector workers (nurses, physios etc etc). Then people will leave these jobs and stop entering them, that's not a good thing. Especially when the international job market is better in Australia and US.

4 Saving money on taxes in exchange for rubbish public service is no saving.

5 People should be protesting for better private sector pensions (they used to be be good till the funds were wasted), not worse public sector ones.

View original

Agree with every single one of those points.

But Will is right in that there is very little clarity around the issue, which leads to a lot of misinformation. Especially with the strikes affecting the whole country; a lot of poorly informed people have a lot of very strong opinions on the issue based on which newspaper they read.

Well that certainly is true.

The teachers unions need to make the point very loudly that their new pension deal is in effect a substantial pay cut.

Which means combined with no or vlow COLA increases people are leaving.

I'm recruiting for support workers. A lot of people I interview are nurses and teachers.
This is not a good thing.

Quote: billwill @ December 3 2011, 5:51 PM GMT

How many of the private sector 'final-salary' pension schemes still exist?

etc etc.

Believe me, both Public Sector & big firm private sector workers have very cushy pension systems compared to the average self-employed tradesman (or small Limited company business).

View original

Point 1 very few.

Those that do contribute significantly themselves. And in most of those jobs decent pension and affordable housing schemes are the compensation for low salaries. Affordable housing has been replaced by key worker housing, which is shit. Go for the pensions and look at a major recruiting crisis.

Point 2

Sadly the small business man will always get screwed and shouldn't. In the US it can mean not being able to afford health insurance.

My personal feeling is that anybody who turns out for Work each day, should be payed at least enough to live on.

Without Charity.

I can understand people wanting pay rises etc but I wish there was a way to make a point instead of striking.

Especially in sectors like health care and teaching. In many cases when nurses/healthcare worker go on strike it results in elective surgery then been cancelled. If you've been booked in to have surgery then you've had to arrange to take time of your work for the days in hospital and possibly recovery time at home, as well as a number of other arrangements. Not everybody gets sick pay and if you've put in for time off then arrangements have been to cover your shifts already. The same when teachers go on strike....Not everybody has family/friends to leave their kids with and they then might have to miss a days pay.

I don't mean to offend anyone, as I said I can understand people wanting pay rises/pension increases. I just wish there was a way to do it so that people who have no say if the workers get it or not don't end up lossing out as well.

F**kin luv the right to do it- sad but that is the only point, the 'Red Flag Blazing' has gone.

Quote: reds @ December 4 2011, 2:49 AM GMT

I can understand people wanting pay rises etc but I wish there was a way to make a point instead of striking.

Especially in sectors like health care and teaching. In many cases when nurses/healthcare worker go on strike it results in elective surgery then been cancelled. If you've been booked in to have surgery then you've had to arrange to take time of your work for the days in hospital and possibly recovery time at home, as well as a number of other arrangements. Not everybody gets sick pay and if you've put in for time off then arrangements have been to cover your shifts already. The same when teachers go on strike....Not everybody has family/friends to leave their kids with and they then might have to miss a days pay.

I don't mean to offend anyone, as I said I can understand people wanting pay rises/pension increases. I just wish there was a way to do it so that people who have no say if the workers get it or not don't end up lossing out as well.

View original

That may well be true.

But often it's the only way to get people to pay attention or hurt the government enough to listen (eg become less popular)

The public sector has been fighting a long retreat since the 70s/8os. And they hve been pushed hard before taking this action.

Ask yourself what would it take for you to pay attention?

I'm surprised there hasn't been more public unrest. All we've had is 1 day of action and a camping trip in London. The Girl Guides could have done that.

Only my personal experience but when I worked in the public sector I found that a lot of people didn't care about the job & spent most of their time moaning or taking the piss out of the generous sickness entitlement.
I'd be back there in a shot given half a chance.