Hopefully not too off topic, but has anyone seen the film "Hall Pass"? It was absolute drivel, apart from Stephen Merchant.
The post-credit sequence, starring Stephen, is absolute genius and far better than the rest of the film:-
Ricky Gervais' Latest Comedy Controversy Page 6
Quote: random @ November 14 2011, 4:45 PM GMTDid you laugh?
I thought he was just about getting away with it until the bit about being sexually abused by 'Grandad Charlie'. Then I thought "Oh come on Ricky, a sketch that involves mental health issues AND abuse as well?" I normally couldn't give a crap about PC issues in comedy but this particular character seems to come from an unkind place. We're supposed to be laughing at him because he looks and talks retarded. I had this conversation with a mate and he pointed out Little Britain's Andy & Lou but that's different in that Andy always wins. In fact he's not even disabled, he just pretends.
I actually have the greatest respect for Gervais but try as I might I can't find any comedy justification for this character.
Of course I could be totally wrong and completely misunderstood the comedy in it but those were my thoughts.
I haven't watched the clip of the character at all, so probably shouldn't even comment. But is everyone who appears simple or odd 'mentally ill'?
Can't people just be a bit simple?
Nah it's quite blatant.
Quote: zooo @ November 15 2011, 12:06 PM GMTCan't people just be a bit simple?
It's a good question; we're happy to laugh at Frank Spencer because he's an oddball, but if we we gave his condition a label, would that make any difference?
There's a study to be made certainly of stealth Aspie characters like Frank Spencer or Moss in sitcoms.
And if they've been around longer than the condition was diagnosed.
But there's something disenguos about the character whose; on benefits, at home in middle age, a bit simple and unaware, wears his keys around his neck, etc etc.
Whose clearly identified with all the stereotypes of being learning disabled. But isn't because the writer "honest guv" says he isn't. A bit like all those 70s/80s thrillers where it just turned out that the prison rapists were black and all the gays were weak and effiminate.
Interestingly enough I think Peter Kay handled this kind of character rather well.
Quote: zooo @ November 15 2011, 12:06 PM GMTI haven't watched the clip of the character at all, so probably shouldn't even comment. But is everyone who appears simple or odd 'mentally ill'?
Can't people just be a bit simple?
Well yes, but for me, being a bit "simple" would encompass "thicko" characters like Bubbles in AbFab, Alice in Dibley, Baldrick in Blackadder etc, but none of them are portrayed as being actually retarded. (Horrible word I know). This Derek character is being followed by a fly-on-the-wall documentary crew, accompanied by sad piano music. He gurns, he struggles to get his words out, he talks like an awkward 10 year old boy, thinks like an awkward 10 year old boy. The character reminds me a lot of a comedy version of Ian McKellen's Walter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKI63W8tCSM
I suppose it could be argued that Derek is just an oddball (and I'm sure that would be the official stand if it ever got made), but as Sooty says you only need two eyes to see the blatancy of it.
Thanks Lee you put that much better than me.
Funnily enough I think Peter Kay did something similar with his oldest paper boy character. That was actually warmer and more involving.
The annoying thing is there some quite talented actors with learning disabilities. So to me this is no better than blacking up to play a role.
Richard Herring did an interesting bit on disability this week:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0174gl1/Richard_Herrings_Objective_Series_2_The_Wheelchair/
Quote: Lee Henman @ November 15 2011, 11:58 AM GMTI thought he was just about getting away with it until the bit about being sexually abused by 'Grandad Charlie'. Then I thought "Oh come on Ricky, a sketch that involves mental health issues AND abuse as well?" I normally couldn't give a crap about PC issues in comedy but this particular character seems to come from an unkind place. We're supposed to be laughing at him because he looks and talks retarded. I had this conversation with a mate and he pointed out Little Britain's Andy & Lou but that's different in that Andy always wins. In fact he's not even disabled, he just pretends.
I actually have the greatest respect for Gervais but try as I might I can't find any comedy justification for this character.
Of course I could be totally wrong and completely misunderstood the comedy in it but those were my thoughts.
But thinking back, did you laugh when you first watched it?
Quote: random @ November 16 2011, 11:59 PM GMTBut thinking back, did you laugh when you first watched it?
I smiled at the very beginning when he steps in dogshit, and the freeze frame where he's smiling daftly at the camera. The rest left me a bit cold TBH. What did you think?
Quote: Lee Henman @ November 17 2011, 12:32 AM GMTI smiled at the very beginning when he steps in dogshit, and the freeze frame where he's smiling daftly at the camera. The rest left me a bit cold TBH. What did you think?
If I'm being totally honest I found it amusing and laughed several times throughout
Is this wrong? Does this make me a bad person?
But surely I cannot help who I am, can I?
I can't help but think that many may laugh behind closed door but it's only when they're confronted and have to admit in front of 'the crowd' that they change the initial response.
Quote: zooo @ November 15 2011, 12:06 PM GMTBut is everyone who appears simple or odd 'mentally ill'?
Can't people just be a bit simple?
Exactly 
This clip is from 2000 isn't it?
Quote: Badge @ November 17 2011, 12:43 AM GMTThis clip is from 2000 isn't it?
Yeah, something like that
Quote: random @ November 17 2011, 12:41 AM GMTIf I'm being totally honest I found it amusing and laughed several times throughout
Is this wrong? Does this make me a bad person?
But surely I cannot help who I am, can I?
I can't help but think that many may laugh behind closed door but it's only when they're confronted and have to admit in front of 'the crowd' that they change the initial response.
Course it doesn't make you a bad person. We've all made or laughed at off-colour remarks in private. But I think the point is this is potentially reaching a wide audience which then becomes hurtful to people affected, which is unfair, especially since people with learning difficulties can't necessarily defend themselves.
I dunno, it just doesn't 'feel' right to me and I'm pretty broad-minded.
Quote: Badge @ November 17 2011, 12:43 AM GMTThis clip is from 2000 isn't it?
It is, but Gervais apparently recently posted up on his blog that he was writing a script based on Derek, and he posted the link to the movie.