I think that it should be compulsory that you have to work until you're 21, and THEN go to Uni if you want to.
The effort of having to work in crap jobs for little wages might concentrate the mind once you do go to University. Not only would it make people study more but it would also make them appreciate the time they have there.
Like one of the posters above I enjoyed my time there but certainly didn't make the most of it. I should have worked a lot harder and played a lot harder too!
Perhaps my thoughts are a little jaundiced as I'm currently liable for a fee of just under £10K and the buggers won't supply handouts.
With the benefit of being both tutor and student, the quality of provision is extremely variable. All unis are not alike. Do not like anyone try to persuade you otherwise. Likewise all tutors are not alike. Some know their stuff and want to teach. Others want to be the students' friend and will pass dross.
I have studied at Russell Group unis under some of the top academics in the subjects and learnt phenomenal amounts. Equally, I've been tutored by some hopeless cases who were obviously appointed solely because they had published and would have done better sitting in the library. They certainly couldn't teach and were copying their notes from the textbook. That said I've been put in the position of standing in front of a class in a subject that I didn't know which was only tangentially related to my field, given no support and expected to muddle through. I've always tried but sometimes when the kids won't shut up in a lecture I've thrown a wobbly and stomped out.
But at present, I'm looking for my lecture materials for tomorrow's classes. It is gone 8pm and there is nothing on the virtual learning environment to download. I won't have time before I leave home to do it and I've got a meeting as soon as I get there. I don't want genius, I want competence.
Oh and, if it hasn't been said, there are too many students doing too many non helpful degrees chasing too few jobs.
Quote: KLRiley @ November 7 2011, 8:22 PM GMTPerhaps my thoughts are a little jaundiced as I'm currently liable for a fee of just under £10K and the buggers won't supply handouts.
With the benefit of being both tutor and student, the quality of provision is extremely variable. All unis are not alike. Do not like anyone try to persuade you otherwise. Likewise all tutors are not alike. Some know their stuff and want to teach. Others want to be the students' friend and will pass dross.
I have studied at Russell Group unis under some of the top academics in the subjects and learnt phenomenal amounts. Equally, I've been tutored by some hopeless cases who were obviously appointed solely because they had published and would have done better sitting in the library. They certainly couldn't teach and were copying their notes from the textbook. That said I've been put in the position of standing in front of a class in a subject that I didn't know which was only tangentially related to my field, given no support and expected to muddle through. I've always tried but sometimes when the kids won't shut up in a lecture I've thrown a wobbly and stomped out.
But at present, I'm looking for my lecture materials for tomorrow's classes. It is gone 8pm and there is nothing on the virtual learning environment to download. I won't have time before I leave home to do it and I've got a meeting as soon as I get there. I don't want genius, I want competence.
Oh and, if it hasn't been said, there are too many students doing too many non helpful degrees chasing too few jobs.
Very interesting, I recognize and agree with what you say. One of my sons was in a similar situation. I also think it is unfair that some students who go to college and do apprenticeships are paid less and treated differently to those who have degrees, regardless of the subject or level.
Quote: roscoff @ November 7 2011, 3:52 PM GMTExcellent except for a dodgy second year. The first year was most excellent. I had no interest in academia to be honest. I just went to college to get pissed and layed. That might sound a little selfish but I doubt I'd be alone in those thoughts. And I did get a job out of it.
Could someone just clear something up for me. I thought in the UK College is where you can go to study year 12 and then extra year (year 13?) The impression I get is that the purpose of this is for A levels, which are the exams you need to sit to get into uni?
Quote: Clint75 @ November 7 2011, 7:14 PM GMTI think that it should be compulsory that you have to work until you're 21, and THEN go to Uni if you want to.
It's hard for governments to try to stop people going to Uni, because as soon as they do, the unemployment rates will rise temporarily, which will look bad at the next election.
Also if uni is a way of keeping unemployment figures down and saving on JSA, it seems especially mean it should cost the poor student thousands in debt.
Quote: reds @ November 8 2011, 1:39 AM GMTCould someone just clear something up for me. I thought in the UK College is where you can go to study year 12 and then extra year (year 13?) The impression I get is that the purpose of this is for A levels, which are the exams you need to sit to get into uni?
Some High Schools have a 6th form where students can take their A levels. Students can stay on if they are already at that school, or go there after leaving a different school. This is a 2 year course and is usually for those aged 16-18.
Alternatively they can go to college where there are usually a wider age range of subjects and qualifications, both academic and vocational. There is no age restriction.
There are also part time Adult Education Courses, mainly run in the evenings, where A levels and vocational courses are available. These can be at schools, colleges, community centres, village halls - all sorts of places.
There are other further education options, such as Drama Academies and Training centres specialising in vocational subjects.
Quote: sootyj @ November 7 2011, 4:30 PM GMTHey Roscoff how was job as a penguin monitor on an abandoned island a 1000 miles from decent society?
So where did you get the booze?
As Penguin monitor the job was pretty black and white really. As for the booze we all had grants so we didn't have to steal the bottles of 'Thunderbird'.
Quote: roscoff @ November 8 2011, 9:56 AM GMTAs Penguin monitor the job was pretty black and white really. we all had grant to 'Thunderbird'.
What a horrible euphemism, I hope David Attenborough kicks your bum.
Quote: roscoff @ November 8 2011, 9:56 AM GMTAs Penguin monitor the job was pretty black and white really.
A segregated society?
After having a few decades of work and two careers I'm finally doing university through a part-time MA as you seem n to need a degree to clean a toilet these days.
There are a few older people in the modules and we all bring new perspectives to lecturers who are going through the motions. Doing the academic rigour after the career is more unusual but I'm enjoying it immensely and it just like watching or listening to a decent BBC4/Radio4 documentary in the evenings instead some bollocks.
Also: word counts. WTF?
How can you go into enough depth on 5 topics within a subject in less than 1100 words?
You can't.