Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 31 2011, 1:04 PM BSTIndia is veggie heaven, however. I'd happily put up with all the rest of their bullshit just for the incredible grub.
Vegetarianism Page 4
Quote: Leevil @ October 31 2011, 1:45 AM BSTThat's what she said!
Seriously though. This is one of my main reasons for being put off meat. Is it worth an animal dying so I can enjoy a burger for 5 mins? If I was desperate, I would eat meat before you ask. But I can make my own perfectly good vegetarian burgers for example with only the slaughter of several plants and seeds. I know, I'm a monster!
Sad to say, a LOT more mammals get killed in the growing & harvesting of vegetarian food than the meat foods. But the animals are small; mice, voles, rabbits etc. and they die in pain e.g by being hit by a harvesting blade, rather than the painless stunning & death in an abattoir.
Quote: Leevil @ October 31 2011, 1:45 AM BSTThat's what she said!
Seriously though. This is one of my main reasons for being put off meat. Is it worth an animal dying so I can enjoy a burger for 5 mins?
(I had some lovely home made spicy lamb burgers at the weekend.)
Quote: billwill @ October 31 2011, 1:54 PM BSTSad to say, a LOT more mammals get killed in the growing & harvesting of vegetarian food than the meat foods. But the animals are small; mice, voles, rabbits etc. and they die in pain e.g by being hit by a harvesting blade, rather than the painless stunning & death in an abattoir.
Is that just a guess? I'm not sure I believe more animals (that have the chance to flee) die than those born and raised to be slaughtered (by the millions) each day, everyday.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ October 31 2011, 2:08 PM BST(I had some lovely home made spicy lamb burgers at the weekend.)
Was the lamb homemade as well?
Is Kevin Murphy getting pious with me? 
Quote: Leevil @ October 31 2011, 2:13 PM BSTWas the lamb homemade as well?
This whole planet is my home. And you all owe me rent.
Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ October 31 2011, 2:28 PM BSTIs Kevin Murphy getting pious with me?
Depends what kind of pie it is.
Linda McCartney I hope.
It may not be MORE, but it is still LOTS of small animals killed by grain harvesting to make our daily bread.
I can't find the original article that I read but here are some others:
Here is the Vegan viewpoint, but I find the graph somewhat dubious. http://animalplacesanctuary.blogspot.com/2009/10/number-of-animals-killed-to-produce-one.html
It seems to say that a vast number of animals are killed in the harvesting of crops for beef production, compared with a tiny amount for vegetable/grain harvesting. That doesn't make sense to me. When the cattle are out in the fields browsing, I don't think they could/would kill many small animals. If they are talking of harvesting hay etc for winter feed, they would be using the same techniques/machines as for grain harvesting so the figures should be similar.
Here a typical forum argument about the issue.
As I understand it, fleeing doesn't usually help, because the animals flee into the uncut crop & then get killed when the harvester does the last patch.
Yes, it's impossible to be truly vegan. But I'm not vegan, I still consume dairy products which supports the dairy trade. Which can be just as bad as the meat trade, at least their suffering ends quickly.
But I still don't want to chew on a pig, cow, chicken or fish.
Everyone has to draw the line somewhere.
I'm quite happy to smash insects into pulp in self-defence, for example.
Harmful bacteria are on my shit-list, too. F**kers.
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 31 2011, 3:08 PM BSTEveryone has to draw the line somewhere.
I'm quite happy to smash insects into pulp in self-defence, for example.
Harmful bacteria are on my shit-list, too. F**kers.
Species-ist! 
Quote: Leevil @ October 31 2011, 2:42 PM BSTLinda McCartney I hope.
A Linda McCartney pie? You're a sick and twisted person Leevil.
Quote: roscoff @ October 31 2011, 3:19 PM BSTA Linda McCartney pie? You're a sick and twisted person Leevil.
Yeah, they're not veggie. They've found traces of Beatle in them.
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 31 2011, 12:31 PM BSTYou're suffering from selection bias.
Most gay people are outrageously camp and flamboyant. Or are they...?
Most camps are gay though, but not the other way round.
It physcological I believe but I don't know all the facts.
As for meat, well I'm pretty sure meat is killed humanely and mostly raised humanely except in some cases. Even Halal meat has to be slaugtherd in a humane way now so the chances of non humane normal meat must be miniscule.
Although I did buy some sweat shop clothes today so Iguess I am prety heartless.