Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 31 2011, 8:51 AM BSTBy the cows, the pigs, the chickens or the sheep?
Chimpanzees or Killer Whales.
They would observe our avoidance of meat as a lack of will to maintain our apex status.
Like building a Maginot line in front of Nazi Germany,
Oh, I eat chimp. I don't class primates as animals for the purposes of my diet.
What you'd eat any animal smart enough to smoke fags and pretend to play the piano?
You'd eat Chaz and Dave?
I do find a lot of vegetarians are very pious about 'meat eaters', not all, but a lot.
I have been lectured before on the 'follow my none meat eating religion' or you are a sinner line. I do understand, and I have seen how animals are slaughtered and I still choose to have meat as an option in my diet.
If you do not eat meat just because you hate the thought that an animal has been killed to feed you, then I suggest you look at a lot of other things in your life that are also a direct result of animal slaughter and cruelty.
There is the obvious one of leather products, all from the same murdered animal.
But so much in daily life has ingredients from animals. perfume, cardboard, glue, ink, sugar and even your best bone china tea set is made from dried ground up bones.
It's almost impossible not to use animal products in your daily life - it's not just the meat.
I'm not veggie, I eat loads of fish and almost no other meat, because that seems to be the best way to avoid dying early. It just so happens to taste great, too, and I feel better for it. Of course I could still get run down by a bus, which is why I've stopped eating buses.
Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ October 31 2011, 9:49 AM BSTI do find a lot of vegetarians are very pious about 'meat eaters', not all, but a lot.
Really? How do you know? Do you ask everybody about their dietary preferences?
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 31 2011, 10:12 AM BSTReally? How do you know? Do you ask everybody about their dietary preferences?
You're going to look a right dick if the answer is 'yes'.
There are pious vegetarians, who point out things like the fact that rainforests are being cleared to raise the cattle that you're eating, thus contributing to climate change and threatening our children's future.
Pious bastards.
Quote: Nogget @ October 31 2011, 10:20 AM BSTThere are pious vegetarians, who point out things like the fact that rainforests are being cleared to raise the cattle that you're eating, thus contributing to climate change and threatening our children's future.
Pious bastards.
That's true, but the farming of soy clears a significant share of rainforest also.
I have a friend who is the head chef at my favourite restaraunt. I asked him once why he never had chicken soup as a starter option. Or in fact why his oxtail soup which was beautiful was never on any more.
He said lots of veggies had complained that meat eaters had the choice of two soups where they only had one.
And of course I never would ask anyone if they are vegitarian - but some will tell me they are usually followed by 'pious' remarks.
Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ October 31 2011, 11:19 AM BSTI have a friend who is the head chef at my favourite restaraunt. I asked him once why he never had chicken soup as a starter option. Or in fact why his oxtail soup which was beautiful was never on any more.
He said lots of veggies had complained that meat eaters had the choice of two soups where they only had one.
And of course I never would ask anyone if they are vegitarian - but some will tell me they are usually followed by 'pious' remarks.
Well, I'm not one for telling people what they should or shouldn't do but then my not eating meat doesn't have a moral dimension. If I truly cared about the suffering of my fellow creatures I could see how it would pain me to watch others scarf down meat though, especially given that most meat eaters would hurl their burgers if they went anywhere near a killing floor.
Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ October 31 2011, 11:19 AM BSTAnd of course I never would ask anyone if they are vegitarian - but some will tell me they are usually followed by 'pious' remarks.
You're suffering from selection bias.
Most gay people are outrageously camp and flamboyant. Or are they...?
The meat and dairy industries are so inextricably intertwined that a vegetarian diet that includes dairy is a difficult ethical position, though if the objection to meat is a more visceral response to the eating of corpses then I suppose ethical considerations are secondary.
Surprisingly few animals are strictly vegetarian - I have fed a pork pie to a sheep, and even cows will bite the heads of nestlings for the calcium contained in their skulls. Humans are equipped with the dentition and digestive capabilities for an omnivorous diet; we are a part of the animal kingdom and that is our evolutionary legacy. Disowning that legacy somehow seems dishonest.
If humans were to desist from eating meat, animals would not stop dying or being eaten. What would we feed to our pets - would it be ethical to force a vegetarian diet on a cat or a dog? Besides, life for animals in the wild is typically short and not free from pain and stress.
A total end to arable farming, and a corresponding increase in cereal and pulse production, would have huge implications for landscape and biodiversity. Many species adapted to co-existing with grazing animals would undoubtedly be lost. Having said that, compared to meat, cereal and pulses are far more efficient in terms of calorific output per acre of production. The insatiable demand for meat is resulting in food shortages and in the destruction of other habitats as ranches expand.
What is really required is a change in our relationship with meat. People who were closer to the land, living with farm animals or hunting for the pot, understood that there was a significance to eating meat. That an animal had died. Meat has now become so commoditised that people do not associate their burger or their chicken nugget with a life that has been terminated.
This in turn has changed our relationship with farm animals, the bargain that those species unconsciously entered into when they accepted domestication. Animals are reared in conditions determined by accountants concerned only with profitability, which do not respect that their instinctive needs, and result in stressed lives in which they are unable to express natural behaviours.
So eat meat, but not at every meal, and be prepared to pay more to ensure that animal welfare standards are met. The meat, coming from less stressed and better cared for animals, will be of better quality, and be more pleasing to both your palate and your conscience.
Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ October 31 2011, 11:19 AM BSTI have a friend who is the head chef at my favourite restaraunt. I asked him once why he never had chicken soup as a starter option. Or in fact why his oxtail soup which was beautiful was never on any more.
He said lots of veggies had complained that meat eaters had the choice of two soups where they only had one.
I eat meat but I've got no problem with there being more than just a single vegetarian option, because apart from the fact that it's nice for the vegetarians to have a choice, I actually enjoy soups without meat in too. Unlike you, who seems to have had an unfortunate experience which leads you to imagine vegetarians are some sort of whining scum, I've actually got veggie friends, and very often there's a woefully inadequate choice on the menu for them. I remember one National Trust cafe which only had cheese sarnies in the veggie range, along with endless prawn, chicken, ham etc.
Anyway, this restaurant is obviously just reacting to market forces, and catering for the changing requirements of their customers. Saying the vegetarians 'complained' makes them sound like some sort of troublesome element, rather than paying customers.
Menus and shops are usually pretty decent for vegetarians in the UK, due to the relatively large number of us.
I think to a large extent we have immigrants, with their silly religious dietary requirements, to thank for that.
Other countries can be a nightmare.
Germany's pretty bad. I almost starved in Argentina. Even America, where Heinz puts pork fat in pretty much every can of muck it shits out, can be touch-and-go.
India is veggie heaven, however. I'd happily put up with all the rest of their bullshit just for the incredible grub.