Quote: Marc P @ October 4 2011, 12:15 AM BSTWhy?
Arrogance. Pure and simple.
Blimmin' Rugby Thread Page 8
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ October 4 2011, 12:15 AM BSTI'm not ITy so I can't do links and stuff, but the figures will be online somehere for sure. Pretty sure they'll show our lack of tries against the two half decent teams, the missed kicks, the cited tackles, the penalties given away, the penalty kicks missed.
England won both, that's true, but as a writer you know that's only half the story. They looked poor and up against it in both narrow victories. That's a truth they cannot hide from viewers' eyes. If England get to the final, I don't think it'll be on present form. They could yet decide to all turn up, especially the pack (bar the magnificent Croft) and perform to their ability but they definitely aren't doing it yet. imooo.
If you can't provide figures for form fine, just don't tell me off for calling you on it and waffling. Here are some figures you don't have to Google... to repeat again. England before the world cup was ranked number four in the world. We haven't lost a game so far in the World Cup. Me I am going to cheer them on. Because for me that's Rugby and every game from here on in is just that... game by game. Like I said, you can call me a wanker if you like if we fall at the next hurdle. Let me assure you it won't be the first time.
Quote: Oldrocker @ October 4 2011, 12:23 AM BSTArrogance. Pure and simple.
Why?
Quote: Marc P @ October 4 2011, 12:26 AM BSTWhy?
Marc, I'm sorry but if you need to ask you obviously cannot see what the rest of the World sees.
'All we have to do is turn up.'
'Johnny Foreigners.'
I'm trying to check as memory fades, but, I think it was 1999 at Wembley. England led Wales by 31 - 25 and were awarded a kickable penalty with not many minutes to go.
What did you do? Take the three points and go two scores ahead?
No.
Kick it into the corner and go for the try. Rub their noses in it.
If I'm right, that failed and Scott Gibbs scored the injury time try, converted by Neil, to give Wales a 32 - 31 victory.
Arrogance, sheer arrogance.
Quote: Oldrocker @ October 4 2011, 12:38 AM BSTMarc, I'm sorry but if you need to ask you obviously cannot see what the rest of the World sees.
Runners up last time, winners the time before that. Yes the rest of the world have got us pegged right enough. And I was asking you? We may well go out at whatever stage next up, but we have world class players who deserve to be where they are now. It's not marked like a boxing match. I know it's really bad form to support England... but hey, I'm going to do it even if they do go out against France. And you and the entire rest of the world can enjoy it! 
Quote: Marc P @ October 4 2011, 12:44 AM BSTRunners up last time, winners the time before that. Yes the rest of the world have got us pegged right enough. And I was asking you? We may well go out at whatever stage next up, but we have world class players who deserve to be where they are now. It's not marked like a boxing match. I know it's really bad form to support England... but hey, I'm going to do it even if they do go out against France. And you and the entire rest of the world can enjoy it!
'Say goodnight to the people Gracie.'
Dave, Dad's Army is my favourite sitcom so I will. Enjoy the football.
I still support England, it's just that Johnson isn't pleasing me with his management. He seems stubborn and too set in the old England mindset, that saw him as Captain labour to the win in 2003 when they were hot favourites. And bored everyone doing it.
Before this one he told the press 'We'd like to play a little better this time.' So what does he do? Goes back to picking Wilkinson, even when he's clearly struggling with the boot. It was Flood at the helm when England rattled up 4 wins in a row in the 6 Nations before being humbled by Ireland.
England then lost a warm up game to Wales, who are playing flair rugby, even against top teams like SA. England have only run the ball against the two minnows, but against the two reasonably good sides had to huff and puff their way to unattractive wins.
This is what's provoked the expected wave of criticism again. I still support them but if they come up against Wales, as a Brit, I will use my right to cheer on the much more attractive and stylish looking red dragons. I think if one nation deserves to get to the final it is Wales, for their history and the way they get their backs in the game. Sorry England, but your style depresses me.
Well I agree with the management side of things. Youngs has been told not to do what he does best, snipe and disrupt and get the ball moving. Why pick him if you are going to stop him from doing what's needed. V odd.
Johnson has Ashton, Foden and Tuilagi in his backs, but he only uses them against weaker sides or when they're trailing to strong sides in the last five mins. Johnson is so over cautious it's not funny anymore. 
Wales use their backs a lot, it's probably why they are extremely fit. And it gets praise from neutrals and sports fans and everyone. I'd rather see Wales fail admirably than England win unpleasingly. A lot of folk are like that.
Marc - I'm not a rugby expert but Alfred seems to have given his reasoning quite well. However ...
... as a football fan I know that northern team in red always keep going til the final whistle and often get late goals...
and...
Italy won the football world cup in 1982 having drawn all their group games so you never know.
Hate to say it guys but playing open flowing rugby and losing is not what a knockout competition is about. Many of us on here don't like the way England are playing because there is a lot of talent in the back division and the pack are sufficiently savvy to get enough possession for the girls to be able to chuck it around and score. But for whatever reason the mindset in the England camp is not right. (Let's leave the off the pitch stuff out of it). I watch Ben Youngs play regularly as I'm a Tigers fan and I have to think back a way for a match where he was as useless as he was on saturday but then seeing how Jonny was playing I suppose it was kind of why bother getting the ball to him as he seems scared of it. At base Johnno knows if he stuffs up then his management career is over so its back to the England of the 1990 under Geoff Cooke et al. Stuff it up the jumper and kick. Boring? Extremely but they got to the last world cup final by being a much worse team coming into it and most England supporters would call them unlucky for losing because of the disallowed try.
In a way I was glad Scotland lost the game because it would have be too much to have actually beaten England but not got the points difference.
Quote: KLRiley @ October 4 2011, 5:04 PM BSTHate to say it guys but playing open flowing rugby and losing is not what a knockout competition is about. Many of us on here don't like the way England are playing because there is a lot of talent in the back division and the pack are sufficiently savvy to get enough possession for the girls to be able to chuck it around and score. But for whatever reason the mindset in the England camp is not right. (Let's leave the off the pitch stuff out of it). I watch Ben Youngs play regularly as I'm a Tigers fan and I have to think back a way for a match where he was as useless as he was on saturday but then seeing how Jonny was playing I suppose it was kind of why bother getting the ball to him as he seems scared of it. At base Johnno knows if he stuffs up then his management career is over so its back to the England of the 1990 under Geoff Cooke et al. Stuff it up the jumper and kick. Boring? Extremely but they got to the last world cup final by being a much worse team coming into it and most England supporters would call them unlucky for losing because of the disallowed try.
In a way I was glad Scotland lost the game because it would have be too much to have actually beaten England but not got the points difference.
i think you are agreeing with me. England didn't throw it about and run because Argentina and Scotland didn't let them, because England let them dictate the game. England should have dictated the game, because they were the better side in both matches. Ben Youngs will be back I reckon. I expect fireworks from England. 
08/10 - 06:00 Ireland - Wales
08/10 - 08:30 England - France
09/10 - 06:00 South Africa - Australia
09/10 - 08:30 New Zealand - Argentina
According to this (bookies again Marc, I don't know eh?)
http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/internationals/rugby-world-cup/winner
Ireland odds on to beat Wales
England odds on to beat France
New Zealand massive odds on to beat Argentina
Australia / South Africa a bit too close to call.
(This from a man who has to ask the girl in the bookies to write out the slip for him when he puts £20 on England to win any football competition)
I agree with that I think, how I figured, Ireland Wales is a close one to call though. I'd give Ireland the edge - but I think it might be closer than the odds might suggest.