The all-in-one consolidatory football thread Page 267

Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ August 23 2011, 3:55 PM BST

It's a bit the like the Bill Shankly being banned from your ground fact, they seem to get lost when reds reflect!
We beat Wimbledon fair and square if your looking for fixes it was Bruce Grobbelaar who was arrested for fixing games when he played for LFC, it was in all the papers and he went to court and was prosecuted, don't you remember?

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Hans Segars did give us a bit of help though! I was stood right behind him when Graham Stuart's grass-cutter trundled past his hand. That was the start of probably my all time favourite summer.

Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ August 23 2011, 3:55 PM BST

It's a bit the like the Bill Shankly being banned from your ground fact, they seem to get lost when reds reflect!
We beat Wimbledon fair and square if your looking for fixes it was Bruce Grobbelaar who was arrested for fixing games when he played for LFC, it was in all the papers and he went to court and was prosecuted, don't you remember?

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Teddy, first off.... Shankly wasn't "banned from the ground", he was banned from turning up to the training ground unannounced because he was undermining Bob Paisley's rule, and disrupting the training sessions. Maybe that lacked sentiment, but we were in the business of winning trophies. Shankly himself would have been equally ruthless.

2nd... A light hearted quip about Everton paying off Wimbledon in 1994, does not justify bringing up the Heysel stadium disaster in which 39 innocent people died. This is a decent natured forum, and such bitterness should really have no place. Not to mention that to bandy around such slogans in a point scoring manner is just a touch disrespectful to the people that died.

Trabs I am only citing UEFa's findings, its not me that is saying it is the governing body of European Football and police forces across the continent.

Uefa intensified its argument with Liverpool over the ticket chaos at the European Cup final yesterday by leaking details of a report which brands the club's supporters as the "worst behaved in Europe".

Michel Platini, the president of European football's governing body, will present the findings of a four-year investigation to the Sports minister, Richard Caborn, tomorrow and demand that Liverpool are ordered to improve security checks on those who follow the club abroad. The report, based on evidence collected by undercover police officers, details 25 disturbances involving Liverpool supporters at European away games since 2003 but the catalyst for the meeting between Platini and Caborn in Brussels is the final against Milan in Athens and the violence that occurred outside the Olympic Stadium on 23 May.

A Uefa spokesman, William Gaillard, accused Liverpool supporters of stealing tickets "out of the hands of children", adding, "we know what happened in Athens and Liverpool fans were the cause of most of the trouble there".

"We do not condone the behaviour of Liverpool fans who charged gates, stole tickets or who knowingly had forgeries, that is clear, but we are hugely concerned many innocent fans with valid tickets did not get in and checks at the outer cordons did not work."

Phil Hammond, whose son Philip was among the 96 Liverpool supporters who died in the Hillsborough disaster in 1989 and is now chairman of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, has stated: "My heart sank as I stood and watched what was happening. After what happened at Sheffield in 1989 I couldn't believe Liverpool fans, of all people, could do such dangerous things. I honestly feared people were going to get crushed and we were going to have another Hillsborough.

"It was disgusting," Hammond added. "The people who stormed into the stadium are the scum of the earth. They put at risk hundreds of lives and they should be ashamed of themselves. the vast majority of Liverpool fans are impeccably behaved but there's always been a hard core of mindless thugs that ruin it for the rest. It hurts me to say this but I won't be following Liverpool on their travels in the future."

Don't shoot the messenger, deal with the facts!

No Teddy, this and Heysel has nothing to do with what anybody was discussing. What you have presented here is not a coherent response to anything else in the thread.

I refer you back to my last post, and ask that you actually take in what I've said, instead of trying to throw more shit about.

Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ August 23 2011, 4:52 PM BST

Trabs I am only citing UEFa's findings, its not me that is saying it is the governing body of European Football and police forces across the continent.

Uefa intensified its argument with Liverpool over the ticket chaos at the European Cup final yesterday by leaking details of a report which brands the club's supporters as the "worst behaved in Europe".

Michel Platini, the president of European football's governing body, will present the findings of a four-year investigation to the Sports minister, Richard Caborn, tomorrow and demand that Liverpool are ordered to improve security checks on those who follow the club abroad. The report, based on evidence collected by undercover police officers, details 25 disturbances involving Liverpool supporters at European away games since 2003 but the catalyst for the meeting between Platini and Caborn in Brussels is the final against Milan in Athens and the violence that occurred outside the Olympic Stadium on 23 May.

A Uefa spokesman, William Gaillard, accused Liverpool supporters of stealing tickets "out of the hands of children", adding, "we know what happened in Athens and Liverpool fans were the cause of most of the trouble there".

"We do not condone the behaviour of Liverpool fans who charged gates, stole tickets or who knowingly had forgeries, that is clear, but we are hugely concerned many innocent fans with valid tickets did not get in and checks at the outer cordons did not work."

Phil Hammond, whose son Philip was among the 96 Liverpool supporters who died in the Hillsborough disaster in 1989 and is now chairman of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, has stated: "My heart sank as I stood and watched what was happening. After what happened at Sheffield in 1989 I couldn't believe Liverpool fans, of all people, could do such dangerous things. I honestly feared people were going to get crushed and we were going to have another Hillsborough.

"It was disgusting," Hammond added. "The people who stormed into the stadium are the scum of the earth. They put at risk hundreds of lives and they should be ashamed of themselves. the vast majority of Liverpool fans are impeccably behaved but there's always been a hard core of mindless thugs that ruin it for the rest. It hurts me to say this but I won't be following Liverpool on their travels in the future."

Don't shoot the messenger, deal with the facts!

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Wasn't there any mention of the Roma fans who have a penchant for stabbing the arse of away fans, as they drive past themon their scooters?

Trabs my point is this, having a pop is a two way street, so don't give it if you can't take it!

When we beat Wimbledon we beat them on the pitch, no one was paid and no one broke the rules, so suggesting otherwise and then attempting to pass it off as banter is bullshit.

I know enough decent reds to be able to distinguish from the Good the Bad and the Ugly, I have good mates who are scouse season ticket holders, not wannabes and wools.

If one of them tried to suggest that Everton FC are corrupt I would point out major real incidents involving their fans, its called a level playing field.

I don't make stuff up, or tell lies I can just cite verifiable fact, I even saw them with my own eyes when they attacked the ambulance taking Alan Smith to hospital with a broken leg, just because he played for Man U.

If you want to talk football I'll do it all day and enjoy it, but people in glass houses shouldn't start throwing stones and passing it off as a bit of fun, simple as.

As far as Heysel goes I watched it with my own eyes and I truly believe that a certain section (Not all) of Liverpool's fan base kicked off.

So don't have a go at me for stating facts or even recalling them, I don't brush history under the mat I study it and when its air brushed I detest it!

I agree that other clubs have done wrong, but we never and we were the European Cup Winners cup holders and we were prevented from defending our title due to others actions.

To reiterate my point once more, there is difference between football banter, and bringing up situations in which people have died and using those peoples deaths for cheap point scoring.

I have family who were at Heysel, have spoke to enough lads who were there, and read enough accounts from eye-witnesses to have grasp of what went on that day. We could get into a discussion about it, but frankly it would side track from what the original point is. I don't want to debate you on Heysel because it has nothing to do with this thread. My issue with your posts, is that you are over stepping the mark of decency and taste.

Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ August 23 2011, 5:39 PM BST

So don't have a go at me for stating facts or even recalling them, I don't brush history under the mat I study it and when its air brushed I detest it!

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Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ August 23 2011, 2:15 PM BST

39 Italians massacred that's not a conspiracy that's a fact!

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If you studied history Teddy, you would know that the 39 people that died at Heysel were not all Italian as stated in your post. But hey, why let the facts and memories of the dead get in the way of a good slogan?

Also you would know that your point on Shankly being "banned from our ground" was inaccurate. Also, you would have been able to provide context to the William Gaillard's comments about Liverpool fans that you posted. For example you would know that his statements come off the back of Liverpool criticising the way he and UEFA handled the 2007 Champions League Final between us and AC Milan. You would also know Teddy, that UEFA had to backtrack on those statements and admit that they were false:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6721545.stm

For somebody who claims to study their history, you seem to come out with a lot of half-truths and inaccuracies.

I can see this one running and running Teddy, so just to keep a context to what this is about, I am going to cut and paste my first paragraph again; because, this is what I have issue with:

To reiterate my point once more, there is difference between football banter, and bringing up situations in which people have died and using those peoples deaths for cheap point scoring.

Quote: Trabs @ August 23 2011, 7:56 PM BST

To reiterate my point once more, there is difference between football banter, and bringing up situations in which people have died and using those peoples deaths for cheap point scoring.

I have family who were at Heysel, have spoke to enough lads who were there, and read enough accounts from eye-witnesses to have grasp of what went on that day. We could get into a discussion about it, but frankly it would side track from what the original point is. I don't want to debate you on Heysel because it has nothing to do with this thread. My issue with your posts, is that you are over stepping the mark of decency and taste.

If you studied history Teddy, you would know that the 39 people that died at Heysel were not all Italian as stated in your post. But hey, why let the facts and memories of the dead get in the way of a good slogan?

Also you would know that your point on Shankly being "banned from our ground" was inaccurate. Also, you would have been able to provide context to the William Gaillard's comments about Liverpool fans that you posted. For example you would know that his statements come off the back of Liverpool criticising the way he and UEFA handled the 2007 Champions League Final between us and AC Milan. You would also know Teddy, that UEFA had to backtrack on those statements and admit that they were false:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6721545.stm

For somebody who claims to study their history, you seem to come out with a lot of half-truths and inaccuracies.

I can see this one running and running Teddy, so just to keep a context to what this is about, I am going to cut and paste my first paragraph again; because, this is what I have issue with:

To reiterate my point once more, there is difference between football banter, and bringing up situations in which people have died and using those peoples deaths for cheap point scoring.

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I've just read that article, and Platini makes a good point about English teams taking way more fans abroad than teams from other countries.

There was a fox's head mounted on a wooden plaque on the wall in a pub near Dudley with a West Bromwich Albion scarf draped around it.

The landlord said that when the Albion played badly, his little dog would leap up and bite the fox's nose.

When asked what the dog did when Albion played well he replied 'Don't know. I've only had the dog seven years!'

Quote: Oldrocker @ August 24 2011, 12:10 AM BST

There was a fox's head mounted on a wooden plaque on the wall in a pub near Dudley with a West Bromwich Albion scarf draped around it.

The landlord said that when the Albion played badly, his little dog would leap up and bite the fox's nose.

When asked what the dog did when Albion played well he replied 'Don't know. I've only had the dog seven years!'

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West Bromich Albion? Surely you mean Wibby?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpOXyQB1DPE&feature=player_embedded

I don't need to score cheap points off anybody you just have to understand how your fans are perceived by other fans. In the main Liverpool fans are detested and seen as being scum.

In the interest of clarity here are the names (of those non Italians) that were killed at Heysel

Rocco Acerra
Bruno Balli
Alfons Bos
Giancarlo Bruschera
Andrea Casula
Giovanni Casula
Nino Cerullo
Willy Chielens
Giuseppina Conti
Dirk Daenecky
Dionisio Fabbro
Jacques François
Eugenio Gagliano
Francesco Galli
Giancarlo Gonnelli
Alberto Guarini
Giovacchino Landini
Roberto Lorentini
Barbara Lusci
Franco Martelli
Loris Messore
Gianni Mastrolaco
Sergio Bastino Mazzino
Luciano Rocco Papaluca
Luigi Pidone
Bento Pistolato
Patrick Radcliffe
Domenico Ragazzi
Antonio Ragnanese
Claude Robert
Mario Ronchi
Domenico Russo
Tarcisio Salvi
Gianfranco Sarto
Giuseppe Spalaore
Mario Spanu
Tarcisio Venturin
Jean Michel Walla
Claudio Zavaroni

Don't tell me about Shankly either, I saw the man at Bellefield loads of times as I trained there on a few occasions.
I actually got a plaque of him after I won a three rounder on points to a lad who went on to the Olympics in Montreal in 76.
But don't take my word for it lad here's what the man himself wrote:

" I still go to the matches, of course. I sit in the stand. I would have loved to have been invited to away matches, but I waited and waited until I became tired of waiting. "Finally after twenty months and after Liverpool had won the League championship again, I was invited to travel with the club to Bruges for the second leg of the UEFA Cup Final. I accepted, because I didn't want anybody to think I was petty, but it came too late for my peace of mind. I couldn't help wondering why it had taken them so long. And I was not impressed with the arrangements they had made for me in Bruges, where I was put into a different hotel to the one used by the official party. I found that quite insulting.

"I soon realized that Liverpool preferred me to make my own arrangements, so that's what I started to do. I asked other clubs for tickets, sometimes when Liverpool were the visiting team and sometimes to see other teams play. Tommy Docherty invited me to Old Trafford when Manchester United played Liverpool in a night match. Tommy invited me to have a meal with him in restaurant at Old Trafford and we enjoyed a wonderful hour of banter before the match. Sidney Reakes, the Liverpool director, said to Tommy, 'I see Bill Shankly's here.' 'Aye', said Tommy. 'He's welcome here.'
"I might add that I count Everton amongst the clubs who have welcomed me over the last few seasons. I have been received more warmly by Everton than I have been by Liverpool. It is scandalous and outrageous that I should have to write these things about the club I helped to build into what it is today, because if the situation had been reversed I would have invited people to games.
"It was never my intention to have a complete break with Liverpool, but at the same time I wasn't going to put my nose in where it wasn't wanted. Maybe I was a an embarassment to some people."

His actual ban was for Melwood, it was issued by your board as it was deemed to be in the interest of the clubs new manager. Funny how he couldn't get a ticket eh and now they have big gates with his name on and a statue, a tad hypocritical don't you think?

Quote: Splodge @ October 22 2010, 2:36 PM BST

I'm sorry, but this thread has become far too Northern for my liking. I just need to momentarily redress the balance before you all continue.

Stop.

Carry on.

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Teddy, if I hadn't read a number of your posts on this forum over the past couple of months, I would accuse you of deliberately pretending to not understand the points I am making, instead of merely throwing up a smokescreen of shit and innuendo to detract from the fact that you have been checked on behaving in an offensive and crass manner. As it is, I think there is genuine argument here, that you don't know what the f**k is going on, or what I'm talking about.

To reiterate my point once more, there is difference between football banter, and bringing up situations in which people have died and using those peoples deaths for cheap point scoring.

If you are talking about how fans perceive other clubs fans, you may want to take a long hard look at your posts on this thread and reflect on how you are representing Everton.

All clubs have there nobheads Teddy, fans that behave in certain ways, that chant and say things that they think are benefiting the support of their club, defending the honour of their beloved institution maybe? In actual fact, the way these people behave makes them look like bellends to everybody else. It is really worth pondering that point my friend.

Trabs I think you should:

A) Control your language.
B) Stop being so personal.
C) Be prepared to receive answers that you don't like, but are never the less factual.

You stated that there was a suspicion of irregularities regarding our game against Wimbledon, it was an intended slight, all I have done is post facts on issues surrounding your club.

I have not raised an argument, I have simply stated facts as such I do not see why you are getting so personal?.

You opened this can of worms so you can hardly complain if it does little to enhance your club.

For my part I didn't bring the subject up and would be happy to let it return to the ether, unless of course you don't.

As for my being censored, I was in the comedy section so I stopped posting on it as I don't need the hassle.

I think certain posters struggle to comprehend passion and verve, that is their look out, not mine.

If you wish to report me for my views on football facts feel free to do so, for my part limited debates are useless and demanding censorship is to me an indication that the poster is no longer able to stand their own corner and instead opts to be a 'Midnight'

For my part I also think that I represent my club quite well and I will be at the game tonight as always!

COYB

Teddy, I don't need to control my language because there is no restrictions on this forum against any of the language I have used.

The comment I made about the Wimbledon game was light hearted quip. There were allegations about that game at the time, and in subsequent years. The conversation in this thread was on the subject of an Everton game in the 94 season, to which somebody made a joke to Catskillz about conspiracies (a reference to Catskillz posts in another thread). I linked to the two together, in a light hearted manner in reference to Wimbledon game. For you to then bring up football stadium disaster in which 39 people died, is over stepping mark hugely. The fact you can't grasp this is quite frankly astounding.

If you wanted to retort, then just throw the Grobbellar thing back at me. That is an appropriate level of banter, because both things are on same level of importance in life. The Heysel stadium disaster isn't of the same level of importance as the accusation of match fixing, because people f**king died. Do you understand this? There was no justification at all for going so far into gutter over such a trivial point. For you to use that situation in such an irreverent and childish manner is way over the top, disrespectful and not befitting to tone of this thread.

I have not mentioned you being censored, and don't even know what you're talking about on that one. I was making the point that in number of threads on this forum, you have been inarticulate, incoherent and unnecessarily aggressive to other posters.

I have no desire to report you, I would rather have the debate on it because each time you post you only further serve to expose your own ignorance.