People have been advised to take their children out of nursery schools and staff are being sent home. Seems that the looters couldn't wait until night fall; a large shop back in the area where the main trouble was last night is reported as just being attacked
Quote: Peter Brouhaha @ August 9 2011, 1:27 PM BST
Yeah. Our police being there and doing nothing feels worse than them not being there at all. Being there and looing on simply looks like they're condoning it. I think the police will have to kick arse tonight. Just looking at the news, they're saying plastic bullets will be used (though I know you guys wouldn't muck about with the plastic variety!). In general, if the law can't/won't protect us here, I don't see how they can morally prevent us from doing our best to defend ourselves. As I said earlier, I'm very emabarassed by my country right now.
The thing about the common law is that although subjects weren't supposed to simply 'take the law into our hands', we were not totally subordinate to the police; traditionally indeed the police and government officials were not endowed, in areas of general law enforcement, with extra rights than the general citizenry. We had theoretically equal rights of detention and arrest, the citizens arrest was once not empty superstition, and could even bring private prosecutions(we can still do this but it has been curtailed.). Under the common law system the division between vigilantes and the rights of the citizens were traditionally blurred. Obviously the powers that be in modern England have increasingly come to despise our common law heritage(much of our law originates in Brussels and Strasbourg where they have no time for it!).
The police themselves are not really meant to keep order without social consensus, particularly in England. Unlike some of the continentals our police were never martial in character and until recent decades, if Roger Scruton can be believed, were quite well respected. You cannot expect the police to keep order if the community has lost the ability to create the impulse to order itself. Only martial law, another continental staple we've largely escaped, might be able to do that, but that signifies quite an unveiled, harsh sort of power. It is up to the community, society, to reform itself and demand order and loyalty from all its members.
Quote: Westcountryman @ August 9 2011, 1:43 PM BSTThe thing about the common law is that although subjects weren't supposed to simply 'take the law into our hands', we were not totally subordinate to the police; traditionally indeed the police and government officials were not endowed, in areas of general law enforcement, with extra rights than the general citizenry. We had theoretically equal rights of detention and arrest, the citizens arrest was once not empty superstition, and could even bring private prosecutions(we can still do this but it has been curtailed.). Under the common law system the division between vigilantes and the rights of the citizens were traditionally blurred. Obviously the powers that be in modern England have increasingly come to despise our common law heritage(much of our law originates in Brussels and Strasbourg where they have no time for it!).
The police themselves are not really meant to keep order without social consensus, particularly in England. Unlike some of the continentals our police were never martial in character and until recent decades, if Roger Scruton can be believed, were quite well respected. You cannot expect the police to keep order if the community has lost the ability to create the impulse to order itself. Only martial law, another continental staple we've largely escaped, might be able to do that, but that signifies quite an unveiled, harsh sort of power.
Well said. No, I don't blame the police....it's a society/right-from-wrong issue. With the degree of organisation these little shits are using, there's no way the police can handle it. That's why I think it'll need to get 'heavier' from the authorities (i.e they'll need to use more force than they'd usually be comfortable with). Let's hope this gets sorted soon. ATB.
I gather that Tesco's head office has told store staff to issue double Club Card Points to any 'customer' who's actually wielding a club.
Quote: Peter Brouhaha @ August 9 2011, 1:27 PM BST
All the best, mate.
Cheers pal. Actually feels like heading off to war thinking about popping to the corner shop (if it's open)(with stock). Bloody ridiculous.
At least I'm not into dramatic apocalyptic statements and obsessive posting 
Well nothing surprises me really.
I've had work "mates" who were qualified accountants but confirmed racist football thugs and other office workers who openly talk about their violence and hatred toward the police. It just needed a spark to motivate these kind of twats.
Apparently there are no water cannons in this country. Are there any flame-throwers?
The trouble is - as just advised on the radio - the police have had their powers reduced under successive Labour Governments and under EU law.
Quote: shaggy292 @ August 7 2011, 10:34 PM BSTI'm pretty f**king scared now.
I thought you said it was "exciting".
Manchester and Lancashire have sent officers down to London as back-up. So if you live in either of those places, keep safe- you don't have any coppers and your louts know it now!
Quote: AJGO @ August 9 2011, 2:18 PM BSTCheers pal. Actually feels like heading off to war thinking about popping to the corner shop (if it's open)(with stock). Bloody ridiculous.
At least I'm not into dramatic apocalyptic statements and obsessive posting
You be careful out there, mate!
This has nothing to do with poverty. There have been millions of people over time who have had far less than the people perpetrating these crimes and they didn't do this shit. I wish people would take a collective stance to just decry this behaviour and stop looking for reasons other than a mob mentality allowing people who aren't governed by an internal moral code acting under the anonymity of organised numbers.
Quote: Peter Brouhaha @ August 9 2011, 1:27 PM BSTthey're saying plastic bullets will be used (though I know you guys wouldn't muck about with the plastic variety!)
That's all they'd use unless they were being fired upon.
Quote: Corey O'Graffor @ August 9 2011, 2:26 PM BSTThis has nothing to do with poverty. There have been millions of people over time who have had far less than the people perpetrating these crimes and they didn't do this shit.
Well that's bollocks. History is full of peasant revolts. France used to have them on an annual basis.
What we're looking at here is people who can't afford the finer things in life stealing them, so poverty certainly is a factor.
I wish people would take a collective stance to just decry this behaviour and stop looking for reasons other than a mob mentality allowing people who aren't governed by an internal moral code acting under the anonymity of organised numbers.
I agree with this statement, however.
Quote: AJGO @ August 9 2011, 2:22 PM BSTManchester and Lancashire have sent officers down to London as back-up. So if you live in either of those places, keep safe- you don't have any coppers and your louts know it now!
Shouldn't they take police from small towns, where they're unlikely to be needed?
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ August 9 2011, 2:40 PM BSTWhat we're looking at here is people who can't afford the finer things in life stealing them, so poverty certainly is a factor.
Feeling like you're on the losing end of inequality is one thing, but these people have clothes and food and homes- and they're not targeting Harrods to do their Christmas shopping early and treat their dear old mums- they're trashing the homes and businesses in communities of equally poor people. I'd love me some free stuff that I'll probably never be able to afford, but not at the cost of making anyone else feel unsafe, let alone burning and smashing buildings and beating and knifing others.
There is a social inequality issue here, but it's not motivating these scum
Actually, maybe it is motivating them, but it's not helping anyone and they're not doing it to make the world and our society fairer, and they're not doing it because they're desperate for money for food and rent.
Have you ever heard how, when a frog is placed in a pan of boiling water, it will immediately jump out, but if it's placed in a pan of water that is gradually heated up to boiling point, it will just sit there and boil to death? That's a perfect analogy of what is happening to people in the Western world today.
This will freak you right out: http://www.disclose.tv/forum/illuminati-disaster-cards-london-on-fire-t38166.html
Quote: zooo @ August 9 2011, 2:43 PM BSTShouldn't they take police from small towns, where they're unlikely to be needed?
Don't know why they felt it was a good idea to publicise this! Everyone already knew they were putting extra officers on, now trouble makers will flock to these areas. Suppose there's no good place to take police from in this atmosphere- wherever thugs can get away with it, they'll have a go