Quote: Kenneth @ August 8 2011, 12:43 AM BSTIf you put a gun in my hand, I would surrender it to police. That's what I did with my old guns years ago.
That's the beauty of a system where gun ownership is legal and voluntary. Most Americans don't own firearms but the government doesn't make that decision for them.
Quote: Badge @ August 8 2011, 12:58 AM BSTDitto.
They also have the advantage that you can't libel the dead, so all this hearsay and supposition can fill their column inches.
I'm not saying he was saint, or, for that matter, a sinner. I have no idea. But none of us knows. That's the point, folks.
He looks like a wrong 'un he's not even smiling in that photo
Quote: Kenneth @ August 8 2011, 12:47 AM BSTNo argument there. No guns simply means fewer deaths (until nuclear armageddon).
Fewer gun deaths. That's not an insignificant difference.
Quote: DaButt @ August 8 2011, 1:00 AM BSTFewer gun deaths. That's not an insignificant difference.
No... I think Kenneth means fewer deaths, and I agree with him, but I expect you don't.
The international stats for murders simply do not correlate to the ease of access to firearms.
Israel has a slightly higher murder rate than the UK and a far lower rate of over all violent crime.
But pretty much anyone can go to a police station and ask to borrow an Uzi and a 100 rnds of ammo. And yet people resist the urge to gun people down on mass.
Unlike the UK with its depressing litany of stabbings and assaults.
Think up something new to argue about. Like, show of hands, who thinks David Icke is on to something?
Whats his opinion on gun ownership?
Whats his opinion on gun ownership?
Quote: Marc P @ August 8 2011, 12:48 AM BSTI have met more peaceful men and women
But I guess it is all to do with perceived level of threat and what kind of threat etc. Depending on where I lived in your country maybe I would do the same - I don't know but there is the delight in the mechanics of it all that you NRA (?) enjoy, It's a bit male.
I'm not a member of the NRA, I was raised in a household without firearms and didn't purchase my first gun until a year ago at age 47. I now own a grand total of two.
My stance at a glance:
1) Shooting guns in a sporting scenario is fun.
2) There are many guns in the hands of criminals and I do not trust/expect the government/police to respond quickly enough to save me in the event that my life is threatened. Personal responsibility is the name of the game for me.
3) I will do absolutely anything to protect myself and my loved ones from violent criminals.
Quote: billwill @ August 8 2011, 12:54 AM BSTDaButt, if you start believing anything printed by the Daily Mail you are a lost man.
Not sure where your quote came from but earlier you posted this:
Friends of the dead man told BBC London that Mr Duggan, who was also known as Starrish Mark
Seems likely that he was a gang member and I have no love lost for gang members.
Quote: sootyj @ August 8 2011, 1:09 AM BSTWhats his opinion on gun ownership?
Whats his opinion on gun ownership?
That we should all keep one ready in case a member of the Royal household shows up in your garden, takes off their skin suit to reveal the alien lizard self beneath, and tries to drink your blood.
It's the sort of argument it's difficult to pick holes in.
I've heard him and he's surprisingly convincing
Quote: Badge @ August 8 2011, 1:01 AM BSTNo... I think Kenneth means fewer deaths, and I agree with him, but I expect you don't.
Just look to recent conflicts in Africa to see how people armed with knives, spears, machetes, shovels and hoes can murder hundreds of thousands. The human race managed to kill untold millions in the centuries before firearms were invented. Where there's a will there's a way ...
Quote: DaButt @ August 8 2011, 1:12 AM BSTI'm not a member of the NRA, I was raised in a household without firearms and didn't purchase my first gun until a year ago at age 47. I now own a grand total of two.
My stance at a glance:
1) Shooting guns in a sporting scenario is fun.
2) There are many guns in the hands of criminals and I do not trust/expect the government/police to respond quickly enough to save me in the event that my life is threatened. Personal responsibility is the name of the game for me.
3) I will do absolutely anything to protect myself and my loved ones from violent criminals.
Not sure where your quote came from but earlier you posted this:
Seems likely that he was a gang member and I have no love lost for gang members.
So now he is guilty because he had a nickname of Starrish Mark, and (according to the Mail) was seen wearing a T-shirt with Star-Gang on it.
DaButt I have no quarrel with your steadfastness and qualifications to hold a hidden gun licence, but after what you first said on this particular incident, I seriously doubt your ability to decide who is a Violent Criminal.
Quote: DaButt @ August 8 2011, 12:58 AM BSTThat's the beauty of a system where gun ownership is legal and voluntary. Most Americans don't own firearms but the government doesn't make that decision for them.
There is nothing beautiful about gun ownership. After the Australian government tightened gun laws in 1996 I could have still kept my guns by renewing my gun license. But I didn't because I had voluntarily handed them over to police when I left Australia in 1992. I didn't want to keep them stored where there was even a miniscule chance they might someday, somehow get into the wrong hands. I also find guns repulsive but had been raised to know how to shoot and hunt. Obviously you like guns and the vigilante values of America. I don't. I feel much safer in a country where the general public cannot buy guns.
Quote: sootyj @ August 8 2011, 1:17 AM BSTI've heard him and he's surprisingly convincing
He also looks great in a shell suit. Very few ever really pulled that look off.
Quote: sootyj @ August 8 2011, 1:05 AM BSTBut pretty much anyone can go to a police station and ask to borrow an Uzi and a 100 rnds of ammo. And yet people resist the urge to gun people down on mass.
Absolute bollocks. Sure, Israeli soldiers will let you play with their guns, but they won't lend you the gun or ammunition. Israeli police, who I have worked for, don't lend their guns and ammunition out.
