Isn't the internet just as dominated by the middle-classes as television?
Sharon Horgan On The Merits Of The Cult Sitcom Page 5
Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ June 28 2011, 6:07 PM BSTWatershed! They are facing competition from the internet, I'm not advocating everyone taking their kit off at tea time, but a mum in the Volvo taking a loveable mop to scouts and the darling to gymkhana and having a wacky incident with a jobsworth traffic warden is not going to tax anyone's thought process.
I don't think sitcom is about taxing anyone's thoughts Teddy. It's about sitting back and laughing without deconstructing as far as the audience is concerned. Sure some emotional truth helps but that is f**k all frankly to do with class. How people treat each other is what drama and comedy is about.
Well I sat back and I never laughed so I deconstructed it to see why and that is the reason I am posting on this subject.
I remain convinced that pre watershed is beyond banal whilst later is nothing of any note is evident.
Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ June 28 2011, 8:52 PM BSTWell I sat back and I never laughed so I deconstructed it to see why and that is the reason I am posting on this subject. I remain convinced that pre watershed is beyond banal whilst later is nothing of any note is evident.
You really think shows like Thick of It and Peep Show are of little note? What about American comedy, do you like any of that?
In the early stages Peep Show was very good, however if you are going to persevere with a character that issues through the fourth wall every self doubt and insecure reasoning for their actions don't, leave it to the masters such as Wooody Allen or George Costanza.
I loved Phoenix nights, early IT Crowd, first Gavin & Stacey etc etc etc, but it would appear that they over commission good formats until the horse is beyond flogging.
I liked the first Modern Family but the second strayed up its own backside, but we all know that the yanks have always loved franchise over originality.
I do love comedy and I can see the thinking behind an awful lot of shows that sadly go on to become sanitized as though by an invisible hand holding unwritten rules.
Wrong wrong wrong wrong.
I see you gave it some real thought and using the same word four times really proved your point.
Hammers it home, I think.
Not in the slightest I'm afraid, try the CBeebies site.
Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ June 28 2011, 9:53 PM BSTIn the early stages Peep Show was very good, however if you are going to persevere with a character that issues through the fourth wall every self doubt and insecure reasoning for their actions don't, leave it to the masters such as Wooody Allen or George Costanza.
I loved Phoenix nights, early IT Crowd, first Gavin & Stacey etc etc etc, but it would appear that they over commission good formats until the horse is beyond flogging.
I liked the first Modern Family but the second strayed up its own backside, but we all know that the yanks have always loved franchise over originality.I do love comedy and I can see the thinking behind an awful lot of shows that sadly go on to become sanitized as though by an invisible hand holding unwritten rules.
Teddy, you're bonkers! Peep Show started brilliantly and is still brilliant after seven series. Not just my opinion, but pretty much the consensus amongst comedy fans. It's also testament to the writers' shutzpah that rather than quit making the show after only two series, like some many lilly-livered artists, they took the infinitely braver decision to stick with it and try to go on producing a quality sitcom.
Secondly, the notion that comedy can't deal with social awkwardness because Woody Allen and aspects of Seinfeld did, is ridiculous. Especially when Peep Show does that, and other things, so well.
Can't comment on the second series of Modern Family as I haven't seen it yet, but can safely say that American sitcoms of recent years have been some of the finest we've ever had. Curb Your Enthusiasm. 30 Rock. Eastbound and Down. South Park. The American Office... These are great shows and follow a strong tradition of great shows, Cheers, Frasier, Seinfeld, etc.
And as for Americans loving franchise over originality, America is also the nation that has given us The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, Dexter, Battlestar Galactica, Boston Legal, The Walking Dead and The Wire. TV at its most dynamic and original.
Denny Crane!
It's worth noting that Life of Riley stars Caroline Quentin. If it had starred someone else, we might not now be talking about it. The pilot of My Family featured different actors playing Ben and Susan, and was by all accounts a comedy-free zone (though I know some people think it has always been that way). My point is that quite unchallenging material can attract audiences if they like a particular character or characters and the actors playing them although, as Marc says, there has to be some emotional truth.
The Wire was dire, hype over content, it simply wasn't real enough..
Sopranos was spectacular but that show serves to prove my point in that it over reached and in the end and became phoney.
Battle Star Galactaca I never watched so I for once will hold my tongue.
Peep Show is not as good as it was, it diluted its self. As for the Woody Allen/ George Costanza link I deem it to be pertinent. I just think New York street angst is so much sharper than Surrey based social awkwardness angst, as you get the feeling that Allen/Costanza need to see shrinks but with Mitchell it's as though he needs a spine, that's the difference for me.
South Park / Family Guy you can see two episodes; one is spot on, the next misses the target - it really is that simple.
I can't watch Curb Your Enthusiasm, my lad tells me it's great, but as a real George Costanza fan I prefer to stick with the imaginary character rather than the real one.
Malcolm in the Middle never suffered, it was great up to the end.
I have to add that I do like a lot of American stuff, but I also find that some needs to be cut short as the original story line does not really allow for the type of expansion that create franchise.
In case in point take Rambo, in the book the colonel shoots him dead, it was a great story with an obvious end, only they never heeded it.
There are loads of great American shows.
The idea that other shows and characters shouldn't do angst because of Allen/Costanza is silly.
Do some shows go on past their best? Yes.
Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ June 29 2011, 10:17 AM BSTThe Wire was dire, hype over content, it simply wasn't real enough..
You sir are insane.
Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ June 29 2011, 10:17 AM BSTMalcolm in the Middle never suffered, it was great up to the end.
I recently rewatched the first series and am now watching for the first time one of the later series on Viva. The drop off in quality is marked. (It is still viewable, just not essential.)
Quote: Micheal Jacob @ June 29 2011, 10:14 AM BSTIt's worth noting that Life of Riley stars Caroline Quentin. If it had starred someone else, we might not now be talking about it. The pilot of My Family featured different actors playing Ben and Susan, and was by all accounts a comedy-free zone (though I know some people think it has always been that way). My point is that quite unchallenging material can attract audiences if they like a particular character or characters and the actors playing them although, as Marc says, there has to be some emotional truth.
I sometimes wonder if audiences are as star fixated as executives, but as you say in comedy performances are at least as important as scripts.