In most cases it's futile saying "this should be a lot better than it is" but in this case it's fair enough because it HAS been a lot better than this in the past. Sam and Ben used to manipulate Rick. Now they're just stupid. Rick used to have a relationship with his wife. Despite hints of this early in the last episode, now he doesn't. I'm not even sure they know what they're writing any more. It's not a comedy serial - the odd 2-episode arcs don't amount to that. But it's not sitcom either with these 2-episode stories being played out. Surely even its biggest fans would admit it isn't what it was?
Lead Balloon - Series 4 Page 10
Quote: Dene Kernohan @ June 22 2011, 7:26 PM BSTJust watched ep 4. Very enjoyable, as usual, with several laugh-out-loud moments.
Can you adumbrate these please. Not trying to be a smart arse, I genuinely would like to know what you are laughing out loud at in episode 4. It might help me to understand why the show is being broadcast.
Quote: Badge @ June 22 2011, 7:53 PM BSTIn most cases it's futile saying "this should be a lot better than it is" but in this case it's fair enough because it HAS been a lot better than this in the past. Sam and Ben used to manipulate Rick. Now they're just stupid. Rick used to have a relationship with his wife. Despite hints of this early in the last episode, now he doesn't. I'm not even sure they know what they're writing any more. It's not a comedy serial - the odd 2-episode arcs don't amount to that. But it's not sitcom either with these 2-episode stories being played out. Surely even its biggest fans would admit it isn't what it was?
I actually think you're wasting your time. The people who like it would still like it if there was no script and it was improvised from opening credits to out credits.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 22 2011, 11:50 PM BSTThe people who like it would still like it if there was no script and it was improvised from opening credits to out credits.
There are enough hints that part of the show is like this anyway. They skipped great comic potential with Michael's stand-up breakdown, which was only shown as part of a montage. Of course, they couldn't follow it through. Why was Michael confident enough to heckle (and over-heckle) Rick when he'd been humiliated in the montage footage? Probably, he hadn't. The script had a hole and they filled it post-hoc with montage stuff later. Never mind that it doesn't make sense, folks, everyone puts the tea on in those bits anyway.
I'm talking as a previous fan, by the way.
Well me too. The set up is perfect, but it's started to annoy me in all sorts of ways now. I now hate the way that they've pinched the idea of the trumpet off the beginning of the Weller/Oasis song and use it as a sting throughout the show.
Without jokes - and there weren't any in the last two episodes - it's starting to look very pretentious and over-produced.
Quote: Dene Kernohan @ June 22 2011, 6:25 PM BSTAlf Garnett and Basil Fawlty aren't particularly stellar examples of humanity either. But they *are* funny, and so is Rick Spleen imo.
For me, the difference is that I can rarely sympathise with Spleen. When Basil Fawlty rants at his deaf guest, it's because she's being ignorant and unreasonable, and when a rat is running loose in his kitchen, he's tried hard to prevent this happening; so Basil has every right to be indignant and exasperated. However, when, for example, Spleen rides his scooter through the mourners up to the church door, he's just being a prick.
I must admit, his behaviour in the church during the funeral episode did just leave me thinking, "You're a bit of a twat, Rick," rather than inspiring laughter. There seemed no logic behind it, in the way that if Larry David had behaved atrociously at a funeral there would have been a weird, twisted logic behind his actions.
Same here. That's the first time I've ever been just plain annoyed with Rick, and wanted him to shut the hell up.
I guess the plan was that we would indeed feel like that and then be pleased when he got his comeuppance and choked. But I just got even more annoyed that he was ruining the funeral further.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 22 2011, 11:50 PM BSTIt might help me to understand why the show is being broadcast.
That's easy. It's because Jack Dee has a fairly high profile (amazingly) as a comedy personality; he's always available for work; the show is firmly based on a critically acclaimed show; the BBC need to put something new on from time to time and lastly, not leastly, they don't like putting on work from people they don't know.
Badge makes some good points, especially the 'former fan' part. I really enjoyed the first series, although it was clearly a rip-off of Curb, it genuinely felt like we'd found a British version. It was smart and funny.
Nowadays though...it's not based in any sort of reality. The way that Michael constantly has digs: it's never been intimated that him and Rick are particularly close, so why would Rick put up with all the snidey remarks without telling him where to go?
Marty. I'd go as far as to say he's one of the most irritating characters in sitcom history. Surely characters like that *have* to get some sort of comeuppance. Maybe it's building towards that in the final episode. I sincerely hope so.
Mel. In the first series her and Rick were close and intimate, the chemistry between the pair was totally believable. Nowadays though, her sole purpose is to ask Rick a question and then smugly laugh at him behind his back when he gives a misguided answer. Why would he put up with it? They never laugh together, or seem in any way on the same level.
Magda. Why on Earth would anyone put up with such a sour faced cow? Yes, it's a sitcom, but all she seems to do is wind Rick up. And the joke that she's Russian and pronounces certain phrases incorrectly is wearing a bit thin after four series.
In addition to this, as seen in the most recent episode, Rick is seemingly now totally hopeless as a stand-up. In the first series he was decent, even though Marty was (obviously) the driving creative force. I'm not saying we want to sit there and see two people laugh at eachother's jokes for half an hour as that would be extremely self-indulgent, but at least find a balance between 'quite good' and 'embarrassingly bad'.
I genuinely enjoyed the first couple of series, it was well-written and you could believe in the characters and the scenarios. Nowadays though, it's a shadow of its former self. It's a shame.
I love Magda, she's my favourite part of the show.
Quote: Millsy @ June 23 2011, 12:41 PM BSTBadge makes some good points, especially the 'former fan' part. I really enjoyed the first series, although it was clearly a rip-off of Curb, it genuinely felt like we'd found a British version. It was smart and funny.
Nowadays though...it's not based in any sort of reality. The way that Michael constantly has digs: it's never been intimated that him and Rick are particularly close, so why would Rick put up with all the snidey remarks without telling him where to go?
Marty. I'd go as far as to say he's one of the most irritating characters in sitcom history. Surely characters like that *have* to get some sort of comeuppance. Maybe it's building towards that in the final episode. I sincerely hope so.
Mel. In the first series her and Rick were close and intimate, the chemistry between the pair was totally believable. Nowadays though, her sole purpose is to ask Rick a question and then smugly laugh at him behind his back when he gives a misguided answer. Why would he put up with it? They never laugh together, or seem in any way on the same level.
Magda. Why on Earth would anyone put up with such a sour faced cow? Yes, it's a sitcom, but all she seems to do is wind Rick up. And the joke that she's Russian and pronounces certain phrases incorrectly is wearing a bit thin after four series.
In addition to this, as seen in the most recent episode, Rick is seemingly now totally hopeless as a stand-up. In the first series he was decent, even though Marty was (obviously) the driving creative force. I'm not saying we want to sit there and see two people laugh at eachother's jokes for half an hour as that would be extremely self-indulgent, but at least find a balance between 'quite good' and 'embarrassingly bad'.
I genuinely enjoyed the first couple of series, it was well-written and you could believe in the characters and the scenarios. Nowadays though, it's a shadow of its former self. It's a shame.
I agree with pretty much all of this.
Rick used to be a reasonably sympathetic character, now he's just pathetic and in the last episode we were expected to believe that he was a terrible stand up, something which went against what we've been led to believe previously. I guess he's having a crisis of confidence, but this wasn't alluded to enough, it just seems that for the benefit of this episode's plot he's suddenly become rubbish at his job.
His, wife, who again used to be a fairly sympathetic character is now horrible and why has there been no more exploration of her work running a comedy agency? I enjoyed the episode where here new client was winning the awards and Rick's jealousy, why isn't Rick one of her clients? Why isn't this angle being explored?
Michael and Marty are now just insufferable pricks and the kids have just become your standard layabout/slacker/pothead characters with little or no redeeming features.
Magda is the comedy foreigner, just a foil for all of Rick's neuroses, no depth to her character.
Also I get fed up with show where they have an "hilarious" joke or anecdote which we, the audience, never get to hear, to me it's just lazy writing and suggests to me that the writers don't have the ability or confidence to actually write something funny.
In short, more than ever, it's become a very, very pale imitation of Curb Your Enthusiasm (the bit with Rick throwing the biscuit at Magda was especially poor, it was the sitcom version of an open spot trying to be like Bill Hicks), which is a shame because I, like others on this thread, enjoyed the first couple of series.
Quote: Tony Cowards @ June 23 2011, 12:55 PM BSTThe kids have just become your standard layabout/slacker/pothead characters with little or no redeeming features.
The redeeming feature for me is they're extremely funny. These two and Spikey need their own show
They managed to have two musical montages in that episode to pad it out. Looking forward to next week's two hander with Robbie Coltrane though. That's a way of moving the show forward without going all awry.
Quote: Gerry McDonnell @ June 23 2011, 1:02 PM BSTThe redeeming feature for me is they're extremely funny. These two and Spikey need their own show
Yes, I agree that they can often be the funniest characters in the show (the funniest bit last week was him putting the cereal into the milk carton rather than getting a bowl), but I mean no redeeming features in "reality" as it were.
Quote: youngian @ June 23 2011, 1:34 PM BSTLooking forward to next week's two hander with Robbie Coltrane though. That's a way of moving the show forward without going all awry.
I know. It's like putting a lamb into a playpen with a wolf. I can hear the frustrated director now, (cue gay voice) 'Oh luvvie, luvvie, too much, remember who you're acting with, it's Jack Dee, not Al Pacino!' Dee's in for a mullering.