The thing you have to ask yourself is was the writer trying to cast Del Boy as a racist or make the point that racism exists at a casual level within Del Boy's community. As the answer to those questions is obviously no, then the remark was not considered racist when it went out.
Yup in the same way Chirs Lilley can pretend to be disabled or Polynesian and it's good natured and funny.
But as S.Mouse it's just shameful. The line of what's offensive is or isn't is a tricky one.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 22 2011, 4:39 PM BSTThe thing you have to ask yourself is was the writer trying to cast Del Boy as a racist or make the point that racism exists at a casual level within Del Boy's community. As the answer to those questions is obviously no, then the remark was not considered racist when it went out.
I agree, it wasn't meant as a racist comment, is was just a bit of throwaway dialogue that was a fair representaion of the social climate at the time.
All my point was - The social climate has now changed and as a modern writer or joke teller it makes sense to want to reflect 'your' own time, and not your grandfathers.
(obviously writing a time-specific piece is different)
Although again let me say I feel very hypocritical because ive laughed at a lot of jokes (see family guy, south park, simpsons) that could be deemed so and it doesn't make me feel bad and I will continue to do so if they're funny.
Noting the difference between good intent/irony/bad intent is so sublime and finely balanced that I can't even explain it...
Racism "I know it when it I see it"
'
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 22 2011, 4:39 PM BSTThe thing you have to ask yourself is was the writer trying to cast Del Boy as a racist or make the point that racism exists at a casual level within Del Boy's community. As the answer to those questions is obviously no, then the remark was not considered racist when it went out.
"not considered racist" by who?
Also, I wouldn't say that the answer to the 2nd question is obviously no.
Quote: Jack Daniels @ June 22 2011, 4:55 PM BSTI agree, it wasn't meant as a racist comment, is was just a bit of throwaway dialogue that was a fair representaion of the social climate at the time.
All my point was - The social climate has now changed and as a modern writer or joke teller it makes sense to want to reflect 'your' own time, and not your grandfathers.
Then again Jack it's not really the writer's concern anymore - if it ever was. I'd say write what you want. If it's socially acceptable they'll let it through, if it isn't it will be cut.
It's subtle.
I mean Southpark does jokes about the Holocaust and the're very funny (the Schindler's List art camp was bleakly wonderful)
But the Family Guy one with Herbert going to Aushwitz and "Da Cow." Were just awful, offensive and not even slightly funny.
It's an odd thing. I think Family Guy maybe more big hearted and have more of an intelligent point to make. Or just funnier.
In the same way Del Boy's use of the P word is just a normal use of language for the time it was made.
Thats why I feel full of shit Sooty, Family Guy does skits about blacks in America all the time, and I think EVERYTHING in family guy is funny, every line every idea, literally not one miss.
Now they have no black writers or crew, (they say so themselves in the commentary) they say the key to racism/any other -ism is to attack everything and everybody, an equal opportunist hater.
I could listen to Larry David and his inherent worldview on Muslims, Black people, women, all day long...
Yet, take Jim Davidson again as an example, it just leaves a bitter taste.
And that's why I feel two-faced on this subject.
(ps - I can also listen to Pryor/Murphy/Mac sketches on The White Devil, Honkies, Ignorant White Man, all day long and still think it's hilarious.)
Im conflicted.
Quote: sootyj @ June 22 2011, 5:04 PM BST..Del Boy's use of the P word is just a normal use of language for the time it was made.
Gotta completely disagree with you there. "Normal"? No, it definitely wasn't. It may have been normal for skinheads and other racists from across all groups of society, but it most certainly was not "normal" for anyone else.
I was at school in South London in 1967 and I well remember one of my skinhead classmates using the "p" word and getting severely told off by a master, and threatened with a kicking by 10-20 other pupils of mixed races who were there at the time. I never heard it again at that school, but of course I still hear it today often, in the south coast city where I now live. I often wonder if we'll ever move on from this ancient and outdated racist mindset.
Sorry you've know got be known as Style Thingthing...
Racism is prejudice based on racial stereotpyes.
*pauses*
Commonly held misunderstanding is what most jokes are based on.
Insulting people is something else.
Racists are inherently funny, see early comment on racism.
I don't like people on the street telling racist jokes, you can never tell if they mean it or not. And generally involve kicking an ethnic minority.
Is it me or is the tone of that article entirely critical of people who take offence at bigoted humour? Examples given uses descriptions like "touchy audience", "rabid PC inquisitor" and "Guardian feminists".
Why is it so wrong to want to stop the denigration of sectors of the community? And how in doing that do we "victimise the comedian"?
Yeh that's kinda par for the course.
The fact that it's from a single post contributor makes me suspect it was a wind up...
That said the bloody minded but intellectually sound misinterpratation of Shakesperean humour was quite funny.
Quote: phreaky @ June 23 2011, 12:14 PM BSTIs it me or is the tone of that article entirely critical of people who take offence at bigoted humour? Examples given uses descriptions like "touchy audience", "rabid PC inquisitor" and "Guardian feminists".
Why is it so wrong to want to stop the denigration of sectors of the community? And how in doing that do we "victimise the comedian"?
Find a Paki that's swallowed a dictionary and he'll probably tell you...
Quote: RedZed333 @ June 23 2011, 12:42 PM BSTFind a Paki that's swallowed a dictionary and he'll probably tell you...
Why are you giving him shit when he's discussing the essay like the op asked?
Maybe YOU should go find someone who's swallowed a dictionary then they can teach you how to write dialogue for the next time you upload one of your shitty Im-edgy-cos-I-swear-Benny Hill-meets-Danny Dyer-meets-1924-proud-to-be-a-Brit-so-i'll-use-a-famous-American-catchphrase-as-a-title comedy sitcoms.