I read the news today oh boy! Page 395

Is every one picking on DaButt again? You know he didn't invade Iraq and he bears this up with great fortuity,

I'm not sure I entirely approve of people having easy access to lethal firepower. Not least because they're less likely to use it when the time comes.

But there is a lot of low level violent crime in the UK, assaults, muggings, burglaries etc. In part I suspect because most criminals feel unthreatened by the law, the police or their victims.

It doesn't make our streets no go areas, but it does make them more dangerous. I say license tear gas, tazers and firearms for those willing to pass a strenuos battery of tests and have a job,

Quote: DaButt @ June 21 2011, 12:15 AM BST

In case you guys haven't figured it out yet, the main reason Americans can and do own firearms is because it keeps our own government in check.

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Ok that's nuts. Bluntly the ownership of firearms permits incidents like Waco and the police to shoot felons claiming "I thought he was armed"

An argument that doesn't exist here or in a great many other countries where the government can't claim to feel physically threatened by the people.

Quote: DaButt @ June 21 2011, 12:44 AM BST

We can't seal our borders well enough to keep tens of millions of illegal immigrants and millions of pounds of drugs from coming across, so there will always be a supply of guns.

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Oi the Mexican government has been complaining about guns being smuggled there from the US!

Quote: Marc P @ June 21 2011, 12:29 AM BST

When was the last time you felt physically threatened, enough to wish you had a big weapon in your hand?

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Is that your chat up line?

Quote: Marc P @ June 21 2011, 12:40 AM BST

Seriously man, just move. Come to North Norfolk!

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MarkP I was mates with a turkey what you Norfolk bastards have done to him and his people, murderers.

Quote: DaButt @ June 21 2011, 5:15 AM BST

Now explain why Americans who have legally and responsibly owned firearms for their entire lives should give away their Constitutionally guaranteed rights because a bunch of criminals can't stop shooting each other.

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Cheap Kenneth, plenty of other countries have suffered with spree killings.

Even those with tight fire arms laws, it may be slightly easier in the US.

Quote: sootyj @ June 21 2011, 8:37 AM BST

Cheap Kenneth, plenty of other countries have suffered with spree killings.

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Killing sprees have indeed occurred in many countries. But I think you'll find they are more prevalent in countries where people can buy handguns. *turns off repeat mode*

Not really.

China seems to have as many albeit involving knives, clubs etc and many suicide bombing are the works of sad issolated individuals.

Sorry but the argument that licensed gun owners are a potential homicidal threat doesn't hold much water.

Murder is much a result of poverty, poor opportunities and mental illness.

Problems the US has in abundance (same conclusion Micheal Moore reached in Bowling for Columbine)

In a culture where guns are more easily avaliable it's easier for guns to fall into the hands of people who shouldn't have them, such as nutters and criminals.

Conversley in a society such as ours only the nutters and criminals have guns (well and the police/army)

Quote: sootyj @ June 21 2011, 9:25 AM BST

Conversley in a society such as ours only the nutters and criminals have guns (well and the police/army)

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I like that I don't have to worry about being shot here. Yes, gun crime exists here, but not like in the States where it seems to be endemic.

I do feel a little sorry for you dabutt. Not in a condescending way but because this argument is never going to be resolved. And the fact that you are outnumbered on this forum by people that have never seen a gun, never mind used one.

I have an American friend that I speak to daily and we have had this discussion many times. His stance is much the same as yours Dabutt.

I am not moralising here, it's just the way it is.

I saw an incident the other week that became more terrifying the longer it went on.
Two cars hit each other at traffic lights and the drivers and passengers got out to shout at each other. The argument got louder until one went to his boot and pulled out a baseball bat.

This changed the argument from posturing and threatening to a threat of real violence. The other went to his boot and pulled out a wrench.
The two 'unarmed' men ran away from the threat while the two armed men started hitting each others cars.
At no point did either come quite close enough to strike a blow at the other.

Tempers were completely lost and each combatant really wanted to strike the other and anyone that interfered. The rage and anger was palpable.

I feel sure that if either had, had a handgun tucked safely and legally away in the glove-box they would have used it.
None of the people in the argument would have been safe from the gun no matter how quickly they ran away nor would the other drivers stuck in the jam.

From a peaceful day driving steadily along came a great scene of threatened violence because someone made a mistake and tempers were lost. Half an hour later, everything was calm again with no injury to humans. No one was dead and no one was in jail for the rest of their lives.

Quote: chipolata @ June 21 2011, 9:30 AM BST

I like that I don't have to worry about being shot here. Yes, gun crime exists here, but not like in the States where it seems to be endemic.

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No but statistically you have to worry about being beaten, stabbed, beaten to death assaulted by a burgler, bummed by a bugler, threatened by some asshole who carrys a knife purely to avoid the risk of being polite, shot with an airgun or crossbow, have amonia or acid thrown in your face, be blown up by a suicide bomber.

All of which we have substanially higher rates for the US,

The shrill liberal dog whistle of banning all guns solves all woes, is typical limp liberal argument.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ June 21 2011, 9:35 AM BST

From a peaceful day driving steadily along came a great scene of threatened violence because someone made a mistake and tempers were lost. Half an hour later, everything was calm again with no injury to humans. No one was dead and no one was in jail for the rest of their lives.

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Interesting story but the stats simply don't back up the conclusion.

Many countrys with national service (Israel, Sweden etc) have assault rifles and ammo in every home until recently.

Indeed in Israel when on active duty soldiers are expected to take their M16 down the pub with them when drinking.

These countries have miniscule murder rates.

The lethality of firearms is it's own deterent. I suspect you will find many people started punching people at traffic lights whilst their guns sit safely locked in their cars.

Quote: sootyj @ June 21 2011, 9:15 AM BST

Not really.

China seems to have as many albeit involving knives, clubs etc and many suicide bombing are the works of sad issolated individuals.

Sorry but the argument that licensed gun owners are a potential homicidal threat doesn't hold much water.

Murder is much a result of poverty, poor opportunities and mental illness.

Problems the US has in abundance (same conclusion Micheal Moore reached in Bowling for Columbine)

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*Wonders if somewhere in the world Michael Moore is posting on a thread about nuns getting raped by penguins*

Quote: Will Cam @ June 21 2011, 10:33 AM BST

*Wonders if somewhere in the world Michael Moore is a thread nuns getting raped by penguins*
*has a wank*

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now that's why the north's in economic decline.

get back to work wanker

Quote: sootyj @ June 21 2011, 10:35 AM BST

now that's why the north's in economic decline.

get back to work wanker

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Work? We got rid of that in the 80's

I never suggested banning all guns solves all woes, Sooty. But I certainly think this country would be infinitely more dangerous if we had Americas gun laws here.

But safer if we had Norways?