I read the news today oh boy! Page 394

Quote: Kenneth @ June 21 2011, 12:10 AM BST

By coincidence, only this morning I was walking to the supermarket to buy some milk and apples when I noticed several people with feet and hands. Everyone would have felt much safer if I was carrying a gun to protect myself.

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Think about it from a realistic standpoint: the law says that the firearm must be concealed, so the people you passed would have been blissfully unaware that you were carrying. But if one of those people had pulled a knife from his pocket and started stabbing the cashier you could have saved her life if you were armed.

A typical government response to something like a mass murder is to try to add another layer of legislation to existing laws in order to seem like they're "doing something about the problem." Murder is already illegal but someone will decide that the blames rests with handguns or "assault" rifles and try to ban them.

You nations reacted to such massacres by taking away the rights of law-abiding citizens to possess handguns for self-defence. My state reacted to a massacre of 23 people by passing a law to make it legal to carry handguns in public places instead of taking away our guns and leaving only the criminals armed.

This woman was instrumental in changing the Texas law. She watched both of her parents being shot to death and reached for her purse but then remembered that the pistol was out in the truck because she didn't want to break the law.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis

Note the jab at the smug Washington politicians at the end of her testimony.

Quote: zooo @ June 21 2011, 12:18 AM BST

I think we could all learn a lot from Japan.
It's astounding how little violent crime there is there.

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This stuff happens everywhere:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

And let's not forget what they were doing in China, Korea and the Philippines about 70 years ago ...

Do you walk around in fear all the time Dabutt. When was the last time you felt physically threatened, enough to wish you had a big weapon in your hand?

Quote: DaButt @ June 21 2011, 12:25 AM BST

Think about it from a realistic standpoint: the law says that the firearm must be concealed, so the people you passed would have been blissfully unaware that you were carrying. But if one of those people had pulled a knife from his pocket and started stabbing the cashier you could have saved her life if you were armed.

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The notion of a cashier being stabbed at an Australian supermarket is extremely unrealistic. Even if anyone tried such a thing, there would likely be enough burly men about to apprehend and disarm the assailant. No need for guns.

Quote: DaButt @ June 21 2011, 12:28 AM BST

This woman was instrumental in changing the Texas law. She watched both of her parents being shot to death and reached for her purse but then remembered that the pistol was out in the truck because she didn't want to break the law.

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Her parents might likely still be alive today if handguns were illegal in the US.

Quote: Marc P @ June 21 2011, 12:29 AM BST

Do you walk around in fear all the time Dabutt.

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I've already covered that a few hours ago. No, I am almost never fearful but always try to be prepared. The Boy Scouts taught me that.

When was the last time you felt physically threatened, enough to wish you had a big weapon in your hand?

You can't walk around with a gun in your hand. If it comes out of your pocket you'd better be protecting yourself or you're going to jail. That said, a couple of months ago a guy jumped out of his car at a red light and ran up to my window and tried to get me to jump out and fight. I wish I'd had a gun because if he tried to drag me out of my car I would have been defenceless.

I'd also like to have a pistol in my pocket when my car breaks down on desolate roads, when creepy panhandlers won't take no for an answer and get belligerent and when I'm in a parking garage at 3 a.m. downtown in a large city. Just for piece of mind.

Quote: Kenneth @ June 21 2011, 12:35 AM BST

Her parents might likely still be alive today if handguns were illegal in the US.

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This is a decent point.

Quote: DaButt @ June 21 2011, 12:36 AM BST

I've already covered that a few hours ago. No, I am almost never fearful but always try to be prepared. The Boy Scouts taught me that.

You can't walk around with a gun in your hand. If it comes out of your pocket you'd better be protecting yourself or you're going to jail. That said, a couple of months ago a guy jumped out of his car at a red light and ran up to my window and tried to get me to jump out and fight. I wish I'd had a gun because if he tried to drag me out of my car I would have been defenceless.

I'd also like to have a pistol in my pocket when my car breaks down on desolate roads, when creepy panhandlers won't take no for an answer and get belligerent and when I'm in a parking garage at 3 a.m. downtown in a large city. Just for piece of mind.

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Seriously man, just move. Come to North Norfolk!

We can't seal our borders well enough to keep tens of millions of illegal immigrants and millions of pounds of drugs from coming across, so there will always be a supply of guns. Supply and demand, don't ya know. There are plenty of handguns on the streets of the UK but they're in the hands of criminals and not people who can be trusted to follow the law.

As for stopping stabbings, I doubt that there are always a dozen large men willing to take on the attacker every time someone is stabbed. Think about the old woman who lives alone, the young girl walking through an alley or Monica freaking Seles who was stabbed on a tennis court in full view of thousands of spectators and security guards.

Quote: DaButt @ June 21 2011, 12:44 AM BST

... so there will always be a supply of guns. Supply and demand, don't ya know.

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Despite that, I think many lives would be saved if the US banned handguns.

Quote: Marc P @ June 21 2011, 12:40 AM BST

Seriously man, just move. Come to North Norfolk!

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I've felt less safe in the UK than in most places in the United States, with the notable exception of downtown L.A. at 3 in the morning.

I've been to the UK 3 times. A guy tried to pick a fight with me at a pub in Reading, a Welsh guy did the same at a pub in London, my daughter was groped by a man on the street in London and some chavs in Cheltenham gave me the old "What the f**k are you lookin' at?" treatment at midnight. Other than the road rage guy it's been more than 20 years since I was threatened with violence by a stranger here in the States.

I don't live in fear but if I ever find myself face to face with real danger I'd like to be able to make sure I come out alive. It's that simple.

Quote: Kenneth @ June 21 2011, 12:48 AM BST

Despite that, I think many lives would be saved if the US banned handguns.

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Most of those lives would be drug dealers, gang members and violent criminals. I'm not sure they're worth saving and I know they won't be the ones who turn in their guns.

Quote: DaButt @ June 21 2011, 12:44 AM BST

As for stopping stabbings, I doubt that there are always a dozen large men willing to take on the attacker every time someone is stabbed. Think about the old woman who lives alone, the young girl walking through an alley or Monica freaking Seles who was stabbed on a tennis court in full view of thousands of spectators and security guards.

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Two healthy Australian fellows, not a dozen, would be enough to stop a chap from knifing a supermarket cashier. Handguns (in the hands of civilians) cause more crime than they prevent.

Quote: Kenneth @ June 21 2011, 12:52 AM BST

Handguns (in the hands of civilians) cause more crime than they prevent.

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There are two classes of armed civilians: law-abiding folk and gangbangers/dealers/robbers/thugs. The crime rate for people with concealed handgun licenses is far lower than that of the general public. The Texas Department of Safety has all the statistics you need on their website.

In Texas CHL holders are tied to their driver licenses, so when a cop pulls you over he'll ask if you have a CHL and a gun in your car. Even if you say that there's a gun in the car the officer relaxes because he knows you're not a convicted criminal, that you've gone through a thorough background check and know how to handle a weapon safely. You're one of the "good guys."

Quote: DaButt @ June 21 2011, 12:58 AM BST

The crime rate for people with concealed handgun licenses is far lower than that of the general public. The Texas Department of Safety has all the statistics you need on their website.

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I still think that civilians who carry guns may be more likely to go on a shooting rampage than unarmed people. Guns = fatal shootings = bad. No guns = no gun deaths = good.

Quote: Kenneth @ June 21 2011, 1:10 AM BST

I still think that civilians who carry guns may be more likely to go on a shooting rampage than unarmed people.

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Do you honestly think that normal people lack that kind of self-control? If I put a gun in your hand would you get the urge to become a mass murderer? I don't think so.

Texas (25 million residents) had 1328 murders in 2009. Only one of them was committed by someone with a license to carry a concealed handgun. The numbers speak for themselves.

Quote: DaButt @ June 21 2011, 1:33 AM BST

Do you honestly think that normal people lack that kind of self-control? If I put a gun in your hand would you get the urge to become a mass murderer? I don't think so.

Texas (25 million residents) had 1328 murders in 2009. Only one of them was committed by someone with a license to carry a concealed handgun. The numbers speak for themselves.

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Here are some more numbers which speak for themselves: Texas had 862 firearms murders in 2009, of which 661 were committed with handguns. Firearms murders accounted for 65% of all murders in Texas in that year.

More cutting & pasting: In 2009 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 13,636 murders in the US. Of those, 9,146 were caused by firearms.

And these: In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the United States were committed using handguns, compared to 4% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and the rest with a type of firearm not specified. Due to the lethal potential that a gun brings to a situation, the likelihood that a death will result is significantly increased when either the victim or the attacker has a firearm.

Now imagine if handguns were illegal in the US. Do you think there would have been so many murders? You can argue that "supply and demand" would see guns smuggled in and "good riddance if it's mostly drug dealers and gang members getting shot", but I would contend that all human life is precious and America's high rate of firearms murder would decline if handguns were banned and house-to-house visits made by police to confiscate all handguns (gun owners could be compensated for handing over their guns during, say, a 2-year moratorium). No doubt that will never happen and thousands of people will continue to be murdered in the US by guns each year.

Quote: Kenneth @ June 21 2011, 4:29 AM BST

Here are some more numbers which speak for themselves: Texas had 862 firearms murders in 2009, of which 661 were committed with handguns. Firearms murders accounted for 65% of all murders in Texas in that year.

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Ok, now dive deeper into those stats and determine how many of those murders were committed by drug dealers, drug users, gang members and people with criminal records. Now explain why Americans who have legally and responsibly owned firearms for their entire lives should give away their Constitutionally guaranteed rights because a bunch of criminals can't stop shooting each other. Then come up with a workable plan for armed government forces to enter the homes of every American in order to confiscate their weapons. Bonus points if you can come up with a workable way to convince the drug dealers, drug users, gang members and people with criminal records that they should give up their guns.

I would contend that all human life is precious and America's high rate of firearms murder would decline if handguns were banned and house-to-house visits made by police to confiscate all handguns

If armed men kicked down the doors to every house in this country you'd see conservatives, liberals and drug dealers, drug users, gang members and people with criminal records fighting them to the death. It'll never happen.

Find a way to stop people (especially certain ethnic minorities) from wanting to be drug dealers, drug users, gang members and felons and you'll solve America's murder problem. In the meantime, leave me and my guns alone because I'm not breaking any laws nor hurting anone.