Repetition can be very funny.
Repetition can be very funny.
...obviously, sometimes it isn't.
Extras Christmas Special Page 13
Quote: charisma @ December 30, 2007, 10:51 AMNo no! I mentioned Spinal Tap, thats not what I meant! I was using that as an example of how nothing is ever 'original' or 'new', if you go back to an ideas origins, theres always something thats been done before....that was me backing up that silly little argument James Williams tried to start by ridiculously claiming the 'tissues' gag didn't belong because "its old". I'm fully behind Extras and everything Gervais and, particularly Merchant, who's radio show is brilliant, have ever done.
Are you blind? Can you read? I said
this was just one example of what I perceived to be a programme less fizzing with original humour than I would expect.
The joke itself is hackneyed and old. I'm just repeating myself endlessly here, in the vain hope that anyone will understand. Would this be acceptable:
Millman's agent walks in with a bloody nose
Millman:
What happened to you?
Agent:
I walked into a bar.
Millman:
What are you doing hanging round those neighbourhoods? What did you do, order a Martini?
Agent:
No. It was an iron bar.
**
Now, this sort of thing may fit in if Merchant delivered the line tongue-in-cheek, or was trying to be funny and failing. But done straight-up? It's just laziness. And saying 'everything's been done before so I can afford to be a lazy writer' is just a sop to the clueless or unprofessional. And the writers have set the bar ridiculously high. Further, if you are unaware of classic formula stage business gags like the tissues stuff, that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it, it just puts you in the 90% of the undiscerning population that Gervais seems to be a little unsypathetic towards. Gervais can't have his cake and eat it. Such stuff might be ok in a straight unpretentious thing like WTWB, but it doesn't fit with my impression of what Gervais and Merchant are trying to create. Compare some of the material in the Christmas special to that found in the WTWB excerpts - e.g. where the curly-haired boss spits out his coffee in episode 2 or 3 of series 2. It's remarkably similar - and it's this very material that Gervais and Merchant are mocking as being lazy and formulaic.
If you say 'everything's been done before so this is ok' then you are blind to what Gervais and Merchant have been trying to achieve all this time.
If you're just 'fully behind everything they've done' you're a little biased. I'm not someone who just picks holes in their writing for the sake of it - as I've said endlessly before, I think they're very very clever. But if you want to form an intelligent opinion on what they've created you've got to analyse what's set out and not just say 'I love whatever they do'. It was very good, but just not good enough! It was still the best thing on TV at Christmas by far, but it probably boiled down to it being just too long.
Aaron: I think I'm being critical of both the Xmas Special and the writers' too-close-to-the-knuckle hypocrisy; I think the special was where their 'hypocrisy' became most apparent - probably because it was so overlong. I could ignore it up until then, simply because it would be impossible to wholly practise what they're preaching. If we weren't having any pseudo-didactic stuff rammed down our throats, i.e. if they weren't being preachy about fame, selling out, and what makes good comedy, then most of the classic stage business and lazily-thought out material and celebrity cameos* could be forgiveable.
*Which ones did people enjoy? The Hale and Pace one was OK. But again, wasn't their dialogue perhaps a shade too formulaic? I can forgive this, I just thought it was worh a mention.
Thought the Ramsay cameo, for instance, was absolute crap though. Ramsey clearly can't act, fair enough, but the idea 'Millman can have an argument with Ramsey, who shouts obscenities' is not very clever or original, and thus needed to be executed very well, perhaps with some sort of twist. It wasn't executed very well at all and was just straight-up mediocrity.
I can also forgive any breaking of self-made rules if the stuff is funny enough, but it wasn't, probably because it was too long.
I love Gervais, Merchant and his/their comedy, but this episode, while good, was not brilliant. I harldy think that's an attack on him or his oeuvre. Stop making it out to be.
When I saw the list of all the celebs who were going to make an appearance, I was worried. I wondered how they would find the time to fit them all in, and was scared it would be one long twat fest.
But after I watched it, I forgot they'd even been in there. It was the scenes between the main characters that stuck with me.
I LOVE David Tennant, and I barely noticed he was even in it. I think Ricky and Stephen handled it perfectly. The cameos just made the world Andy was inhabiting more realistic, and added some funny moments, they weren't overbearing or out of place at all.
Quote: James Williams @ December 30, 2007, 12:37 PMIf you're just 'fully behind everything they've done' you're a little biased.
I don't think so. She didn't say she was 'fully behind everything they will ever do'. She (and I) have simply enjoyed every single thing they have done so far, which is hundreds and hundreds of hours worth of material and radio shows.
So even if she did say the above, it would be a pretty safe bet.
It all comes down to taste, i didn't like the office one bit, but i did find extras quite amusing, that said, i missed the xmas special 
Isn't this just getting a bit boring?
I enjoyed it!
Quote: zooo @ December 30, 2007, 12:59 PMI don't think so. She didn't say she was 'fully behind everything they will ever do'. She (and I) have simply enjoyed every single thing they have done so far, which is hundreds and hundreds of hours worth of material and radio shows.
Well, that's what I mean. Seems more like hyperbolic frenzied fan support to me to be 100% behind everything they've ever done. In fact, it's mad. I've loved all that I've seen of the duo, which is quite a lot, but I've not fallen in love with any of it, and I stick by my assertion that the special was *relatively* poor (but still OK).
Quote: James Williams @ December 30, 2007, 4:12 PMWell, that's what I mean. Seems more like hyperbolic frenzied fan support to me to be 100% behind everything they've ever done. In fact, it's mad. I've loved all that I've seen of the duo, which is quite a lot, but I've not fallen in love with any of it, and I stick by my assertion that the special was *relatively* poor (but still OK).
I think we'd best agree to differ.
Either that or I'll have to pretend to dislike something they've done. So as not to fit into the 'frenzied hyberbolic fan' category. Apparently.
Quote: James Williams @ December 30, 2007, 12:37 PMCompare some of the material in the Christmas special to that found in the WTWB excerpts - e.g. where the curly-haired boss spits out his coffee in episode 2 or 3 of series 2. It's remarkably similar - and it's this very material that Gervais and Merchant are mocking as being lazy and formulaic.
Just to say that I love the coffee-spitting scene. They subvert the drink-spluttering cliché when the cup is empty for the third splutter.
RAY IS ABOUT TO SPIT MORE TEA BUT THE CUP IS EMPTY.
RAY: Oh, I've finished.
Quote: zooo @ December 31, 2007, 12:03 AMI think we'd best agree to differ.
Either that or I'll have to pretend to dislike something they've done. So as not to fit into the 'frenzied hyberbolic fan' category. Apparently.
OK. But what I mean is, I really do like everything I've seen them do. I really think they're fantastic. I'm not a vitriolic Gervais-hater, I think he's fab. But by saying I'm not 100% behind everything they've done, I mean I don't think their stuff is 100% perfect - certainly not the Extras special. And to dismiss criticism because they produce good stuff is just wrong. Certainly, it's easy for an artist to become complacent if they think they have the Midas touch. It's precisely because their stuff is so good that I was very slightly irritated by the at times confused values of the xmas special.
Now, I wonder if there's anyone else I can piss off...
Not trying to. Seems like any criticism of Gervais & co, no matter how small, is met with universal stonewalling!
Nope, didn't like the office, liked extras better.
Me too.
Quote: roscoff @ December 31, 2007, 2:24 AMNope, didn't like the office, liked extras better.
I find the 'progression' from The Office to Extras very interesting, because 'Extras' seems to have become more and more like the classic sitcom that Gervais and Merchant said they'd never want to make. I think that's only a good thing in many respects though, certainly from a writing perspective, as the scripts (particularly series one) seem to show to me, in many ways, how a sitcom should be written. It really is quite formulaic in a way.
Quote: JohnnyD @ December 31, 2007, 12:14 AMJust to say that I love the coffee-spitting scene. They subvert the drink-spluttering cliché when the cup is empty for the third splutter.
RAY IS ABOUT TO SPIT MORE TEA BUT THE CUP IS EMPTY.
RAY: Oh, I've finished.
Definitely an example, as I said, then, of the line being blurred between Extras and WTWB. WTWB was better than it should have been and Extras was not as clever as it should have been, perhaps. Maybe, just maybe, this was intentional. God knows why it would be though.
I have to say that some of the comments from 'writers' on this board about Extras seem extraordinarily pretentious. To focus on one line of a show or how shots were framed seems pedantic it's rather sad if people actively look for things to criticise.
The idea that 'WTWB was better than it should have been' shows a lack of understanding of comedy in general I would say.
I thought that the special was imperfect but there were a number of laugh out loud moments and it was one of the best shows broadcast over Christmas.
Sure, the finale of 'Extras' was not perfect - a bit too long, for example. I still think it was the funniest and most ambitious comedy on this Christmas. Does anyone truly think that even a tenth of the effort and creativity went into writing and producing shows like 'The Catherine Tate Christmas Special', for example?