Quote: chipolata @ May 22 2011, 8:57 PM BSTI don't see the 45 minute running time as a barrier. If The West Wing can tell a complex story well in 40 minutes then Who should be able to too.
The West Wing doesn't have to build a whole new world, mostly a new cast, and often a new tone/genre every week. That is tricky.
Quote: sootyj @ May 22 2011, 8:55 PM BSTHe's intimidated by strong women?
Nah, go Starbuck!
Actually it does.
It might not strike new sets. But it introduces half a dozen new one off characters each episode.
And a completely new story.
Quote: Griff @ May 22 2011, 9:01 PM BSTThere were some amazing episodes though. Hush, where almost the entire episode is told without any dialogue, is nothing short of a masterpiece.
Everyone always mentions this one when they want to point out a great ep(I haven't seen it). Which makes me wonder if it stands out so much as the show was generally not as interesting as this stand out??
Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 22 2011, 9:00 PM BSTThe West Wing doesn't have to build a whole new world, mostly a new cast, and often a new tone/genre every week.
No, but they had to explain often complex political issues. And I think you're overestimating how difficult it is to build new worlds in a short space of time. Star Trek did it. Films do it all the time. Plays do it. That's the nature of fiction.
Quote: sootyj @ May 22 2011, 9:01 PM BSTActually it does.
It might not strike new sets. But it introduces half a dozen new one off characters each episode.
And a completely new story.
No, what it has to do is very different to a new ep of Who, that much is obvious.
It's a diference challenge.
I mean I watched one season in a row over 2 days.
And the ability to in 40 minutes explain a complex area of US politics, advance half a dozen plots, run a couple of sub plots and still be very funny.
Frankly putting together another alien planet is a piece of piss by comparison.
Quote: chipolata @ May 22 2011, 9:05 PM BSTNo, but they had to explain often complex political issues. And I think you're overestimating how difficult it is to build new worlds in a short space of time. Star Trek did it. Films do it all the time. Plays do it. That's the nature of fiction.
Star Trek is still on board the enterprise most eps. It has much less world building to do than Who, and also a much larger regular and familiar cast.
Putting films as an example isn't much use, as most films aren't forty five minutes long. The point we were talking about is having to build a whole new world and tell a full, satisfying story week after week in only forty five minutes; most films get at least an hour and a half. And then don't have to start from almost scratch the week after.
Quote: chipolata @ May 22 2011, 9:05 PM BSTNo, but they had to explain often complex political issues.
For once we're in agreement and Dr Who's sets are notoriously samey from episode to episode, when they don't nick them whole sale from other shows.
Quote: sootyj @ May 22 2011, 9:07 PM BSTIt's a diference challenge.
I mean I watched one season in a row over 2 days.
And the ability to in 40 minutes explain a complex area of US politics, advance half a dozen plots, run a couple of sub plots and still be very funny.
Frankly putting together another alien planet is a piece of piss by comparison.
If you say so, I didn't realise you had much experience in writing for the show. 
Again, I'm not saying that Who does what it does 'better' than WW.
I liked Once More with Feeling, even if it is an absolute mess.
Quote: Griff @ May 22 2011, 9:08 PM BSTFor example the introduction of Buffy's sister Dawn in season six without a word of explanation, until by the end of that season everything becomes clear and it's a clever part of the strange mythology of the show.
If Who had done that at the start of this series, I rather suspect it would be one of the unanswered (So far) things many are getting pissed at! 
Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 22 2011, 9:04 PM BSTEveryone always mentions this one when they want to point out a great ep(I haven't seen it). Which makes me wonder if it stands out so much as the show was generally not as interesting as this stand out??
They do the same with Who. Blink gets mentioned far more than any other modern episode.
One thing I did like about Buffy was Anthony Head's Giles.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 22 2011, 9:09 PM BSTIf you say so, I didn't realise you had much experience in writing for the show.
Again, I'm not saying that Who does what it does 'better' than WW.
You little snark you.
I watch Dr Who COnfidential, which just depressed the heck out of me with the writer and director blathering about the most boring clone scifi cliches.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 22 2011, 9:11 PM BSTOne thing I did like about Buffy was Anthony Head's Giles.
Only cos he reminds you of MarkP.
Quote: chipolata @ May 22 2011, 9:11 PM BSTThey do the same with Who. Blink gets mentioned far more than any other modern episode.
Many people do mention it, yeah. Many also mention Midnight, or Human Nature, or The Empty Child.
The point I was making more was that Buffy had over twenty episodes every series, but that was the only one people tended to mention when pointing out a standout.