Quote: JoLaw @ May 18 2011, 10:18 PM BSTIt's not less serious.
At the risk of coming off like an absolute douchebag, I would suggest that an alleyway gang rape by strangers with the threat of death or violence would in fact be more serious than the scenario you describe.
What I'd assumed Clarke must mean was something along the lines that two consenting 15 years olds having sex (which could be technically classed as rape, if I've got that right) should be considered at a different degree to any other sort of rape. (Which is sensible, of course.)
But, for all I know that's not what he meant at all. And either way he expressed it bloody badly.
Quote: JoLaw @ May 18 2011, 10:18 PM BSTIn my opinion, being raped by someone you know is more damaging.
My boyfriend when I was 17 decided to have sex with me, even when I'd told him I didn't want to, and said no. A lot. The only reason I was at his house was because we'd been to a party, the hosts had a row and it was awkward. I didn't have money for a taxi and he told me it wasn't safe for me to walk home alone at night. I appreciate the irony.
It's easy to avoid walking down alleyways, it's a hell of a lot harder to learn to trust people again.
He's not part of any statistics, I wouldn't have been able to prove that I didn't consent. I would have had to face the accusations of leading him on.
I'm not alone, I know a lot of women who've experienced similar. Not one of us reported it.
To trust somebody, and then have that happen, is something you just don't ever get over. It's not less serious.
Sorry to hear that Jo. And good on you for putting that into the debate. When you say not one of you reported it, would you maybe have done so if there was a more acceptable degree of response from the police when reporting it, and the ideas that 'boyfriend' wouldn't get sent down for five or ten years? What would you feel was appropriate. And when you say it s not less serious it is not like the other version I guess which is much less rare.
Quote: Griff @ May 18 2011, 10:32 PM BSTI'm just wondering here, but when one poster admits to being raped, and another one responds by saying 'it could have been worse', is it perhaps time to close this thread?
Certainly might not have been the wisest post ever made...
Quote: Griff @ May 18 2011, 10:32 PM BSTI'm just wondering here, but when one poster admits to being raped, and another one responds by saying 'it could have been worse', is it perhaps time to close this thread?
Like Jaque Cousteau you may finally have made it all the way to the bottom of the barrel.
I'm actually going to 'fess up here to having looked through some of my old writings and found some stuff I'm actually ashamed of.
I'm not offended, don't worry.
Yeah, I think it would have been more traumatic at the time. But the long term effects on your everyday relationships wouldn't be as damaging.
My best friend is a man, but 10 years ago that would have been inconceivable.
You can dehumanise a stranger, but when it's somebody that you wouldn't have predicted, it makes you doubt your own judgement.
That said, he was an arsehole which I knew, I was going through the arbitory 'bad boy' phase. I just didn't think he was THAT much of an arsehole.
Quote: Griff @ May 18 2011, 10:32 PM BSTI'm just wondering here, but when one poster admits to being raped, and another one responds by saying 'it could have been worse', is it perhaps time to close this thread?
That's probably not the most sensitive way to characterise my reply mate.
We were discussing the merits of Ken Clarke's comments. Quite a few people agreed with him. If anybody else wants to change their opinion now that one of our number has brought personal experience to the table, fair enough. I have not.
Quote: sootyj @ May 18 2011, 10:34 PM BSTI'm actually going to 'fess up here to having looked through some of my old writings and found some stuff I'm actually ashamed of.
Well I'm ashamed of some of the stuff I've written, a lot of it is very unfunny.
You can't censor yourself when you're writing though, can you? Got to get the ideas out first, and then decide if they're appropriate/funny/clever etc.
The more I think about it, the less I agree with the article. It never hurts to think about things though. And I still hate Russell Howard.
Quote: JoLaw @ May 18 2011, 10:42 PM BSTIt never hurts to think about things though. And I still hate Russell Howard.
Yes.
No that's half the problem isn't it.
They're still lurking there in critique.
And just cause we touch barrel bottom, doesn't make it an irrelevant conversation,
Maybe ten years ago, I was seeing this Japanese lass.
We were having sex for the first time and we'd just started to get into it, and she said "no".
Naturally, I stopped. She asked me why I stopped. I told her I'd stopped because she said "no". She asked me to start again, so I did. Just as I was getting into my stroke again, she said "no" again. So I stopped again. Then she asked me why I stopped...
It went on like this for a few iterations. Turned out that was just the way she acted during sex. It proved quite difficult to train her out of it. We settled on a "safe word".
We dated off and on for a couple years after that.
A few years later, a friend of mine brought me a book back from Tokyo, a phrasebook for Japanese women wanting to date western men.
Along with helpful phrases such as "I don't want to do the anal please", it also contained useful advice such as "Don't say 'no' if you want to have sex. Western men will believe you really mean 'no'."
Paraphrasing, but that was the gist.
I'm not sure what this proves, if anything, but I thought I'd throw it out there, if only to change the subject.
It proves, yet again, that Japan is mental. 
Quote: Griff @ May 18 2011, 11:03 PM BST
OK that has made me laugh. You are a worse man than I thought, and I've met you.
Not even joking. I probably still have the book somewhere. If I dig it up I'll scan the relevant page and bung it up here.
Haha, do it.
Maybe she was worried she was going to miss the traditional Japanese theatre show