Quote: Matthew Stott @ April 28 2011, 11:32 PM BSTI'm not sure about the leeway thing, at least not on here! The same people digging at RTD have been digging at Moff too! It's a BCG Doc Who thread tradition!!
It depends what you choose to see, I think. Pretty much everybody who posts is a fan.
Quote: Badge @ April 28 2011, 11:28 PM BSTFor the record, I think the twisted timey-wimey timeline of the Doctor and River makes no sense
I am never going to understand what people think makes no sense about it, that they don't meet in chronological order? Is that the only thing??
Anyway, I think there's about forty seven pages talking in circles about that as it is.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ April 28 2011, 11:32 PM BSTHe certainly didn't do as well as was expected of him, but he's only had the one series, hopefully he'll do better this year. Off to a good start at least. But then again, he was off to a good start last year too. I'm not sure about the leeway thing, at least not on here! The same people digging at RTD have been digging at Moff too!
He should raise his game then.
Quote: Badge @ April 28 2011, 11:34 PM BSTIt depends what you choose to see, I think. Pretty much everybody who posts is a fan.
Well sure. I suppose there is no one more critical than a fan. It's why I don't go onto the actual Who forums, the amount of bile in those places make Godot look forgiving.
Quote: chipolata @ April 28 2011, 11:36 PM BSTHe should raise his game then.
Well maybe he has, have you watched this new series through? Was Gaiman's episode any good??
Quote: Matthew Stott @ April 28 2011, 11:35 PM BSTI am never going to understand what people think makes no sense about it, that they don't meet in chronological order? Is that the only thing??
Anyway, I think there's about forty seven pages talking in circles about that as it is.
The fact that they both travel in time means it MUST make no sense. Travelling in time = they can meet each other at any point of their co-existence = they can choose (or not) to know more or less about each other at any "time". But as I say, it doesn't matter if the story is good. And so far I am liking this one.
Actually, do we know River always travels in time?? I THINK she did in last years fianle, I think; didn't she buy something to time travel off a fat blue bloke?? I'm not sure it's ever been mentioned otherwise; I may very well be wrong of course. It happens.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ April 28 2011, 11:35 PM BSTI am never going to understand what people think makes no sense about it, that they don't meet in chronological order? Is that the only thing?? Anyway, I think there's about forty seven pages talking in circles about that as it is.
Why can she only travel in the opposite direction to the Doctor, yet when she meets him in the timeline they experience time in the same direction?
Quote: Matthew Stott @ April 28 2011, 11:32 PM BSTI'm not sure about the leeway thing, at least not on here! The same people digging at RTD have been digging at Moff too! It's a BCG Doc Who thread tradition!!
Go on then.. compare and contrast yourself? 
Quote: Marc P @ April 28 2011, 11:41 PM BSTGo on then.. compare and contrast yourself?
No, that wasn't my point there, just that on here I think Moffat has recieved just as much stick as RTD. And yes, both had plenty of negative things said about them that they deserved.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ April 28 2011, 11:44 PM BSTNo, that wasn't my point there, just that on here I think Moffat has recieved just as much stick as RTD. And yes, both had plenty of negative things said about them that they deserved.
Coward 
Not really, good on you Matthew really
Quote: chipolata @ April 28 2011, 11:41 PM BSTWhy can she only travel in the opposite direction to the Doctor, yet when she meets him in the timeline they experience time in the same direction?
Why wouldn't they experience time in the same direction when they're together?
She's not traveling in an opposite direction, she lives her life, the Doctor crosses into her timestream from time to time, by accident or request (Such as the black box engraved invite in Angels one) and as he travels back and forth in time all the time, he has not appeared in her life in a chronological order. The knowing less every time they meet, so she's meeting earlier and earlier versions of the Doctor every time, is certainly contrived, yeah. It's a forced idea, but something that the show hasn't explored, the idea that this man could sweep you off your feet, because to him you're an old friend, but that the next time you see him, he's an earlier version who has never met you. Contrived, forced, but an interesting idea that hasn't been explored on Who before.
She doesn't have to move backwards in time to meet an earlier version of the Doctor, because he himself is zipping back and forth all the time.
My underlying concern is that Moffat will just ask a lot of questions that when the time comes he can't answer. Which is what happened last year with the mess of a final.
Quote: chipolata @ April 28 2011, 11:57 PM BSTMy underlying concern is that Moffat will just ask a lot of questions that when the time comes he can't answer. Which is what happened last year with the mess of a final.
That fianle was certainly a problem. I think one big issue, that many people, myself partially included, couldn't get past, was this much touted idea of a 'Fairytale world'. So some of it did make sense, have a logic to it, but only if you were buying into the fairytale rules the show had set up for itself. The idea that nothing that existed can be completely forgotton, and if only it can be remembered, it will have to come back into existence as the memories are real and they can't be real unless they're a memory of a real thing. That's a difficult thing not to feel a bit dodgy about, really, it feels like magic, which doesn't exist in Who, and it's what the end of the last series hinged on; the Doctor knowing he's about to never have existed, and so dropping back through his timeline, trying to force his memory deep into Amy's subconcious.
I can totally understand why a lot of people would shake their heads in disbelief at that, it certainly feels dodgy to me, no matter how lovely that 'something borrowed, something blue' moment was. There was an elegance to it, but it did verge on feeling like magic.
Which is one reason why I don't feel as confident watching a long story arc on Doctor Who as I would with one on say Angel or Smallville.
Quote: chipolata @ April 29 2011, 12:08 AM BSTWhich is one reason why I don't feel as confident watching a long story arc on Doctor Who as I would with one on say Angel or Smallville.
That may be the most damning thing you've ever siad on this thread.