Dave says that AV is anti democratic. Right and what's your majority?
I desperate want to vote yes to hack off Dave but if I do I'm scared we'll be stuck with the Coalition for ever.
Yes or No to the AV Vote? Page 10
The reason we have a coalition that is essentially a watered down Tory government is that the LibDem position is so weak. Labour did not have enough seats to form a government even with LibDem support, so the LibDems who actually lost seats were forced to trade with the Tories. If they had not done so there would have been another election and the Tories would have got an outright majority (which is why the Tory right is so desperate to bring the coaliton down).
So yes AV probably does increase the chances of a coalition government, but not necessarily this coalition government. A hung parliament where the LibDems held the balance power would result in a government with a very different complexion, regardless of who they did a deal with.
If Dave is desperate for you to vote No, then a No vote is probably not the way to get rid of him.
check this out. it shows our current voting system.
"why first past the post doesn't work" http://www.progressivecyberspace.com/first-past-the-post.gif
i don't know how much better the alternatives really are, but it's food for thought I guess.
cheers 
Quote: Badge @ April 11 2011, 7:29 PM BSTThat's four choices. You only have two.
Not if he uses his single, transferable vote.
I think I will vote next week now. I suddenly have the urge to visit a polling station.
Quote: sootyj @ April 11 2011, 7:27 PM BSTSo with the AV vote do I go
1 no it's a stupid way of diluting democracy
2 hmmm maybe but still no
3 you make a good case but no
4 yes
You go with 4, obviously, like most people who have an IQ large enough to count that high (despite what the 'NO' campaign are suggesting about the British public).
How exactly do you think it 'dilutes democracy'? Do you think that having a government which only 30% of people voted for and 60% of people hate is more 'democratic' than ending up with a government which 75% of people are OK with even if not their first choice?
Perhaps you'd have preferred a Con/Lab coalition so we had a gevernment loads of people voted for and loads of people hated?
A lot of politicians are scared of AV because they know it means they would have to work harder to do a good job to get the votes they need.
Oh, and on the subject of the 'NO' campaign - the fact it will cost money to reform voting is possibly the single most ridiculous, facile and downright f**king stupid reason imaginable. If that's the best excuse someone can come up with, that's pretty pathetic.
Quote: Afinkawan @ April 26 2011, 1:33 PM BSTYou go with 4, obviously, like most people who have an IQ large enough to count that high (despite what the 'NO' campaign are suggesting about the British public).
How exactly do you think it 'dilutes democracy'? Do you think that having a government which only 30% of people voted for and 60% of people hate is more 'democratic' than ending up with a government which 75% of people are OK with even if not their first choice?
Perhaps you'd have preferred a Con/Lab coalition so we had a gevernment loads of people voted for and loads of people hated?
A lot of politicians are scared of AV because they know it means they would have to work harder to do a good job to get the votes they need.
Oh, and on the subject of the 'NO' campaign - the fact it will cost money to reform voting is possibly the single most ridiculous, facile and downright f**king stupid reason imaginable. If that's the best excuse someone can come up with, that's pretty pathetic.
Not sure you'll win many hearts and minds with the old "if you don't vote yes to AV you're a big idiot" strategy, Afinkawan. 
The absolute last thing I want is a government that represents the actual will of the people. What a terrifying idea, most people are idiots and the rest are too smart for their own good.
I want a roughly predictable way of ensuring career politicians get into power. Do very little except maintain the status quo and then leave.
ANything else is either a losers manifesto or dangerous chaos
That said AV is attracting me, if only because I want to wipe the big smile off Cameron's big face on his great big shiny head.
Quote: sootyj @ April 26 2011, 1:43 PM BSTI want a roughly predictable way of ensuring career politicians get into power. Do very little except maintain the status quo and then leave.
Then surely you should favour AV? Under FPTP radical politicians only need to secure 40% of the vote to embark on sweeping reforms, see Margaret Thatcher, or David Camerson if he did not have the LibDems like a ball and chain round his ankle.
In the major parties it is only the extreme right and extreme left who favour FPTP, because they know it is the only system under which they will get to push their agenda through.
Quote: sootyj @ April 26 2011, 1:43 PM BSTmost people are idiots
Individually that is undeniably true, but there is a concept known as the wisdom of crowds, which says basically that the aggregate opinion of a large number of idiots is more likely to be correct than the individually held opinion of any single expert.
Quote: chipolata @ April 26 2011, 1:38 PM BSTNot sure you'll win many hearts and minds with the old "if you don't vote yes to AV you're a big idiot" strategy, Afinkawan.
Well, yes but the 'no' campaign is running the argument that people should vote 'no' because they are too thick to understand AV, so in fairness Afinkawan is only agreeing with them.
Quote: Timbo @ April 26 2011, 2:13 PM BSTWell, yes but the 'no' campaign is running the argument that people should vote 'no' because they are too thick to understand AV, so in fairness Afinkawan is only agreeing with them.
Forget what they're doing, rise above negative campaigning. Take the moral high ground, like what Chip does. 
I want a government that maintains Status Quo !
Quote: Oldrocker @ April 26 2011, 3:22 PM BSTI want a government that maintains Status Quo !
Then you'll get Whatever You Want.
>_<
Quote: Timbo @ April 26 2011, 2:13 PM BSTthere is a concept known as the wisdom of crowds
But there's also herd mentality.
I'm going to smear the ballot paper with chocolate spread and post it in the ballot box. The counters will appreciate a nice sandwich filling at 3.30am. I'm sure of it.
Quote: Nogget @ April 27 2011, 10:14 AM BSTBut there's also herd mentality.
Then again, a herd consisting of dumb animals will often sense danger and act collectively stronger than a single dumb animal acting alone...
Oh, it's all so complicated and confusing, isn't it? *sighs*
Maybe we should just hope for a military dictatorship? We've given democracy a fair go and it simply hasn't worked... for example, Take Me Out with Paddy McGuinness... 