Doing it ourselves? Page 6

Quote: Skibbington von Skubber @ December 21, 2007, 11:13 PM

I agree with others that a sketch show would be better to start with since it's not gonna begin as an experienced & professionally qualified company. Better to learn how to do the minor miracle of simply writing/producing/directing/acting material that is less than 10 minutes long than attempt 6 shows of 30 minutes each and honestly expect to produce something marketable the first time out of the gate.

I'm as positive as anyone else but there's a difference between realistic enthusiasm and clearly biting off more than you can chew.

As for the writing parameters: We need only keep in mind that we are writing for a tiny/almost non existent budget: Simple sets. Simple locations. Shoot scripts after enough have been written and collated into certain piles indicating which multiple scripts can be shot at same location or same set. I think Python did it that way sometimes.

As the starter of this thread and one who has maintained participation in it, Rob, I would say you are becoming a sort of hub, an organizer, and that's worth encouraging. I would put my feet back on the ground and start from Square 1 and prove to yourself and others that you can pull off the minor miracle of simply organizing the shooting of various sketches that aren't more than five or 10 minutes long.

It would be all volunteer: the writing, acting, filming, editing, and uploading to Youtube.

Talking about money at this stage of your very obvious lack of experience regarding entertainment production just ain't on, mate.
I mean, you actually thought charging writers 10 quid would keep out the shite and yet that's about all that is submitted worldwide both for free and WITH entry fees.

Not busting your balls, just wanna you see you succeed and I don't think climbing Mt Everest for your first hiking experience is gonna end in success, but if you got the burning urge to go for it, then go for it. Every failure is a learning experience if you are truly intending on succeeding, and thus it is not a failure.

Just thinking out loud, Rob.

Keep refining it, man. Don't give up on being an organizer.

The Mutherf**ken Skibster

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Not really sure how to answer this as it's so mind numbingly negative about the concept. The idea is about using the best sources available as a collaboration, be that script and persons then supplying the means to allow them to do something as professionally as possible. The major obsticle isn't I think the quality of the work that could be done, but convincing people that we could pull together to create a fund that would allow us to achieve it. Obviously my job as an organiser would be to gather this belief and momentum, something I seem to be failing at badly

Also I really don't understand the Sketch argument TBH. You seem to suggest it because it's easier, but I might suggest that also makes it less worthwhile. There is already a Sketch project on this forum, which could achieve the same result as you suggest. I don't see the point in diluting that.

Rob

So Rob, how's it going?

There's a lot of 'thread' but are you making any progress?

It's not easy, I know that!

Good luck anyway!

Frankie xxx

Quote: Skibbington von Skubber @ December 22, 2007, 8:59 AM

It's the Dragon's Den, mate. No one is being mind numbingly negative about your concept. You are asking for our money and our very valuable time and we are asking you to prove that you and your concept are genuinely worthy of both.

You are talking about raising funds based on an idea/concept but you have nothing tangible to offer as proof that the funding will yield a return on the investment.

I am suggesting you prove yourself as someone who can consistently organize meetings & filming projects that are un-paid and thus prove you are a capable producer who might be worthy of raising & handling funds (ontop of everything else).

Our objections & criticisms are but the harbingers of what you will face as a professional producer.

A producer is a hub. He is the centre of the wheel. He organizes all the spokes to create a stable project. He has to have people skills and know how to avoid burning his bridges. He is a networker and traffic controller and fund raiser. His is not a 9-5 job by any stretch of the imagination. He will be busy & consumed with his projects 24/7.

As for the BSG sketch project: It is clearly as dead as a frozen dick in the snows of Norway. No one capable or dedicated stepped up to the plate as a leader and so it flounders along the shore up against an old tyre and some weeds.

You are the big surprise, Rob, because the majority of us here are writers and artists. We are much too moody and impulsive to be producers. We are, in effect, cattle who are waiting for their Shepard.

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As I see it the idea will either fail to raise the initial pledge target (very likely) and therfore not cost anyone anything.

Or it will raise the target, at which time I think it would have momentum and enthuse quite a few, certainly enough to form the small 5 or 6 central hub of people that would push it forward. There are people on this forum who have far more experience than me in filming and production, and I'd hope to get these people involved. TBH at this point if an executive team with the enthusiasm and skills to push this further couldn't be formed then we'd call it quits and not proceed. Until this was the case we'd not ask for any money.

TBH I don't think this about me alone making it work, but proving that it could. Ultimately only by taking a gamble and pledging by enough people will it even reach the stage where it becomes something worthwhile.

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Anyway now I think I'm starting to repeat myself, so I'll stop posting here and start thinking properly about www.makemysitcom.co.uk (don't click it doesn't exist yet) and how best to get people believing.

Rob

I think I'm kind of a 'target audience' for a project like this, I write every day, I have a bit of a disposable income at present (ahem!) I like innovative web ideas, but unfortunately I'm struggling to see it with this sitcom plan.

If I were to write a decent sitcom pilot I'd send it to all the usual places, trusting that if it was any good it would get me somewhere. Isn't it likely that the only submissions to a contest like this would be scripts that weren't quite good enough? Sitcom scripts must be one of the toughest writing assignments.

I suppose I'm selfish too, I don't see whats in it for me in paying £35/£45 likely just to get someone else's script made. I'd worry also that I'd be spending my money on a group project that has a lot of ambition but not much experience. I'd suspect that my money would only buy me a student film like comedy tape on my DVD shelf at the end of the day.

I don't mean to sound so negative, I do wish you lots of luck with the venture, Rob. Just telling you how I feel, perhaps you can address some of these concerns as you develop the plan. And maybe you will persuade me to part with my money down the line! :-)

When I read about the sketch project on this site I was excited, it seems like there are a lot of talented writers floating around here, and if the best couple of sketches that each devised were filmed I think that would get somewhere. A You Tube comedy channel, a collaboration aiming to get the best out of many writers, would be a very positive thing. I simply don't see that a taped 30 minute pilot would stand more chance of success in the industry as a filmed show, than if it were paper pages on an executives desk.

I'd be thrilled if someone could resurrect the excellent sketch project idea. I'd be willing to help set it up, I'd happily spend time on it and even put a few pennies into the project to buy a domain etc, but I don't have the technical experience to do the 'web stuff' like set up a submission process and vote. Not sure if anyone else is willing to get involved... But I hope so.

Quote: Skibbington von Skubber @ December 23, 2007, 1:08 PM

The old sketch project failed because the organizers were writers. They usually do not make good leaders.

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As it happens, to be fair to writers, the sketch project 'failed' because of me (I'm not a writer). To cut a long story short, the delay is because I haven't had the time to help organise or support the project (it was decided by others it was best to wait until the BSG could help).

Technically the sketch project hasn't failed - it is still happening! Once the new website is online (February) we will be in a position to finally assist with the resources needed (e.g. online voting systems etc) and also with the organisation.

What is being discussed in this thread sounds very similar to that - maybe the two ideas could be married together. The sketch project is fairly well defined up to the production of the final script - but we haven't admittedly thought in detail about how the thing would then be filmed.

Quote: Mark @ December 23, 2007, 7:23 PM

What is being discussed in this thread sounds very similar to that - maybe the two ideas could be married together. The sketch project is fairly well defined up to the production of the final script - but we haven't admittedly thought in detail about how the thing would then be filmed.

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Okay I quit. Personally I can't see how the two are similar in either aim or concept, but since people to be insistant they are I'll just shut up and let you get on with the sketch project.

Quote: Rob B @ December 23, 2007, 8:33 PM

Okay I quit. Personally I can't see how the two are similar in either aim or concept, but since people to be insistant they are I'll just shut up and let you get on with the sketch project.

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I dipped into this thread late so hadn't realised the conversation had morphed things a bit. That said, the aim of the sketch project is to create a pilot sketch show which I'll hopefully be able to get BBC and C4 commissioners to watch... so it is sort of the same aim.

Admittedly we're not looking to form a full on properly registered production company, and the script filmed would be made up of many people's contributions, rather than one sitcom, but otherwise the aims seem to be fairly similar?

It sounds like your a guy who can organise things Rob so if you wanted to take the sketch show project and organise it around a real joint-owned production company I'm sure there'd be no objections.

The organisation behind your inital idea sounds very heavy - I guess that's why I'm suggesting it might be worth seeing how something like the sketch project goes first before people start commiting time, money and effort.

Quote: Mark @ December 23, 2007, 9:09 PM

I dipped into this thread late so hadn't realised the conversation had morphed things a bit. That said, the aim of the sketch project is to create a pilot sketch show which I'll hopefully be able to get BBC and C4 commissioners to watch... so it is sort of the same aim.

Admittedly we're not looking to form a full on properly registered production company, and the script filmed would be made up of many people's contributions, rather than one sitcom, but otherwise the aims seem to be fairly similar?

It sounds like your a guy who can organise things Rob so if you wanted to take the sketch show project and organise it around a real joint-owned production company I'm sure there'd be no objections.

The organisation behind your inital idea sounds very heavy - I guess that's why I'm suggesting it might be worth seeing how something like the sketch project goes first before people start commiting time, money and effort.

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It all about opinions I guess, and some here have already argued the complete opposite to how I think in this thread. Firstly I'd say this is the British Sitcom (not Sketch) guide forums. Secondly I'd ask how many of you have filmed a 30 minute sitcom (probably none) and how many a sketch (probably lots). Uniqueness is not a thing to be ignored as a pitch. Thirdly how does joining lots of sketches together the writer could probably film themselves help? I don't think you'd have a hope in hell of a bunch of unknowns pitching a sketch format to a TV exec. Unknown writers have had sitcoms, but I've never heard of them getting a sketch show. Usually sketch shows are given to stand-ups or performers TV companies want to push but have no vehicle for. You might get a writer noticed doing this, but the sketch format adds nothing to that process, in fact the unless the entire show is amazing it would dilute a great writers impact. Fourthly the quality, as my guess is it would be easier to pick 1 great sitcom script from a hundred entries than 20/30 from 400 hundred sketches. A sketch show would have to be amazing for a tv company to think we need these guys, rather than just asking the known usual safe crowd to produce one. On the other hand a sitcom would just need to be as good. Fifthly more sitcoms are commisioned than sketch shows. Sixthly (Is this a word) I bet TV companies get sent a lot more sketches than they do full pilot sitcoms.

Obviously I'm alone in thinking this, so I'll bow down and let you get on with the sketch concept.

Quote: Rob B @ December 23, 2007, 10:44 PM

I don't think you'd have a hope in hell of a bunch of unknowns pitching a sketch format to a TV exec.

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Probably not, but we are in a fortunate position of having a few contacts in the industry who would at least watch a DVD for us so I don't think it's entirely futile.

Quote: Rob B @ December 23, 2007, 10:44 PM

Firstly I'd say this is the British Sitcom (not Sketch) guide forums.

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Please ignore that. It's a bit of an unfortunate choice of name which has been holding us back for a while now. It's only a couple of months now until it finally disappears to be replaced by The British Comedy Guide.

Sitcoms are still my favourite comedy medium - I just think as a first attempt it'd be easier to have a go at a sketch show rather than a sitcom (as is widely known - sitcoms are the hardest thing to get right!). I guess the main decision swayer for me is more people can get involved in a sketch project than a straight sitcom - and, with my visitor service hat on, that's obviously more ideal.

If the sketch project goes ok we'd no doubt be happy to assist with the sitcom project next. Of course feel free to continue to organise your idea here - I'd love to see it succeed!

Quote: Mark @ December 23, 2007, 10:57 PM

Probably not, but we are in a fortunate position of having a few contacts in the industry who would at least watch a DVD for us so I don't think it's entirely futile.

Please ignore that. It's a bit of an unfortunate choice of name which has been holding us back for a while now. It's only a couple of months now until it finally disappears to be replaced by The British Comedy Guide.

Sitcoms are still my favourite comedy medium - I just think as a first attempt it'd be easier to have a go at a sketch show rather than a sitcom (as is widely known - sitcoms are the hardest thing to get right!). I guess the main decision swayer for me is more people can get involved in a sketch project than a straight sitcom - and, with my visitor service hat on, that's obviously more ideal.

If the sketch project goes ok we'd no doubt be happy to assist with the sitcom project next. Of course feel free to continue to organise your idea here - I'd love to see it succeed!

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Problem with doing something because its easier is that you find everyone has done it too. I don't recall the name of the first man to climb Ben Nevis, and personally I'd rather fail aiming high than succeed aiming low.
I don't doubt you have contacts Mark, but in your heart what do you honestly think you'd have a better chance of success pitching to them, a sitcom or a sketch format?

Quote: Mark @ December 23, 2007, 7:23 PM

As it happens, to be fair to writers, the sketch project 'failed' because of me (I'm not a writer). To cut a long story short, the delay is because I haven't had the time to help organise or support the project (it was decided by others it was best to wait until the BSG could help).

Technically the sketch project hasn't failed - it is still happening! Once the new website is online (February) we will be in a position to finally assist with the resources needed (e.g. online voting systems etc) and also with the organisation.

What is being discussed in this thread sounds very similar to that - maybe the two ideas could be married together. The sketch project is fairly well defined up to the production of the final script - but we haven't admittedly thought in detail about how the thing would then be filmed.

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I gave up on this thread because there seemed enough interest but I was interested in the sketch project.

Mods can you LOCK this thread, as it seems of little point if the Sketch project is still live, and people think they are so similar.

Quote: Rob B @ December 23, 2007, 11:20 PM

in your heart what do you honestly think you'd have a better chance of success pitching to them, a sitcom or a sketch format?

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Definitely a sketch show - the reason being sitcom is such a risk. You foul up on a sitcom - the broadcaster has 3 hours of terrible, very expensive (£600,000+) rubbish, whereas a sketch show goes wrong and there's probably still some ok bits to it thanks to the hit and miss nature of the form.

Plus from a commissioning point of view they're currently getting pitched more sitcoms than sketch shows (probably because the pay for a sitcom is better).

Quote: Rob B @ December 23, 2007, 11:20 PM

Personally I'd rather fail aiming high than succeed aiming low.

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Fair play to you. I guess when money becomes involved that just becomes a little harder for me to say too.

Quote: Rob B @ December 23, 2007, 11:50 PM

Mods can you LOCK this thread, as it seems of little point if the Sketch project is still live, and people think they are so similar.

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I have done so now. Hopefully you'll get involved with our sketch project Rob, if that goes well then perhaps we'll be in a position to tackle a sitcom!

Sorry to hear this, Rob, but please don't get discouraged by the many but frankly quite natural questions that people will have about such a project.

If you really have given up then the project would never have succeeded: people in the biz would have been much harsher and more business savvy in their interrogation. Your getting riled over a few basic questions and feedback re: sitcom v sketch etc would have made many people think twice about this as a serious proposition. Skibbs (and others) posts were very positive in content but you only appeared to hear the negs. In a prospective business your presentation and demeanour matter.

Maybe the idea was revealed too early without too much prior thought being put into the mechanics, funding, and investment returns etc. If you had a pre-defined system then you could have probably answered the questions and we'd have had more of a chance to evaluate it fairly.

If you believe in the idea, persevere. If you can't persuade yourself then what chance persuading the world?