Quote: Badge @ February 12 2011, 1:04 AM GMTTim, I wasn't at all surprised.
There needs to be a faux outraged emoticon on here somewhere... 
Quote: Badge @ February 12 2011, 1:04 AM GMTGive 'em what they don't want but think they might get but never do and you have a sitcom.
Very well put.
Quote: Tim Walker @ February 12 2011, 1:06 AM GMTThere needs to be a faux outraged emoticon on here somewhere...
*why I oughta!*
*waves fist*
*not sure who at, any more*
*chooses random emoticons*
In Rising Damp I actually wanted Rigsby to get Miss Jones.
In this I don't really care.
It's just a useful device to have a girl that Lee likes.
They really shouldn't put them together at all.
But if they did, I'd still watch it as there would always be a few good gags in there.
Quote: Steve Sunshine @ February 12 2011, 1:12 AM GMTIn Rising Damp I actually wanted Rigsby to get Miss Jones.
He sort-of does at the end of the movie spin-off - as Miss Jones very willingly agrees to a date. Although this moment of romance is somewhat tempered by the fact that Rigsby then immediately trips over the cat and, er, falls down the stairs... 
...It's not a great film, I'll give you that.
Quote: Steve Sunshine @ February 12 2011, 1:12 AM GMTIn Rising Damp I actually wanted Rigsby to get Miss Jones.
In this I don't really care.
It's just a useful device to have a girl that Lee likes.
They really shouldn't put them together at all.
But if they did, I'd still watch it as there would always be a few good gags in there.
Fair point illustrating in microcosm the different perspectives of the show. One being it's a gag machine, the other being it's an old-style sitcom with a lot of gags in it. I'd rather it was the latter and I think the first two series managed that, but the latter episodes in general are more gag-oriented rather than character-based.
Quote: Badge @ February 12 2011, 1:04 AM GMTTim, I wasn't at all surprised. Neither was I by Aaron's comments. You are still right. Give 'em what they want and the story is dead - it should have been a 90-min rom-com, maybe. Give 'em what they don't want but think they might get but never do and you have a sitcom.
Are you familiar at all with Peep Show?
Giving Mark the girl he wanted didn't kill it, as there was still reams left for him to deal with, both inside and outside of that relationship. Why could the same kind of thing not be done with Not Going Out? The Lee/Lucy thing has been an overarching theme in recent episodes, but it's not the only concern in Lee's life, nor would it be if they got together. There are so many possibilities. Such a black and white view of the world...
Quote: Aaron @ February 12 2011, 1:20 AM GMTAre you familiar at all with Peep Show?
Giving Mark the girl he wanted didn't kill it, as there was still reams left for him to deal with, both inside and outside of that relationship. Why could the same kind of thing not be done with Not Going Out? The Lee/Lucy thing has been an overarching theme in recent episodes, but it's not the only concern in Lee's life, nor would it be if they got together. There are so many possibilities. Such a black and white view of the world...
You assume that's what Mark wanted. And also that I think Peep Show isn't much weaker for not having Mark-Sophie at its heart. Which I do think, and is probably why I think Peep Show (for all its sustained strengths) will never be as good again as it was in Series 1-2/3.
Quote: Aaron @ February 12 2011, 1:20 AM GMTGiving Mark the girl he wanted didn't kill it,
But Mark getting the girl has never really been a major arc of the show. Oh sure, in terms of plot it has been very useful, but what Mark really covets is for the world to recognise him as a "normal" human being. Having a wife was just an aspirational part of been accepted as normal - and when it didn't work he just had to look for other areas in life to be accepted. Mark's comedy quest is to fall in love with (or at least accept) himself, not for someone else to give him approval.
I don't think that NGO is the same type of show. It's a (in the best sense of the word) broader comedy and Lee's character needs to be constantly antagonistic to the other characters - and they in turn must never really give him any lasting approval. Sure, you can turn any relationship into a bickering husband and wife routine - but it will just be a My Family type of relationship ultimately. Fine if you like that sort of thing, but I don't think that's what NGO's fans would want.
Quote: Badge @ February 12 2011, 1:27 AM GMTYou assume that's what Mark wanted.
No - and no more than you assume Lucy is what Lee wants.
Quote: Badge @ February 12 2011, 1:27 AM GMTAnd also that I think Peep Show isn't much weaker for not having Mark-Sophie at its heart. Which I do think, and is probably why I think Peep Show (for all its sustained strengths) will never be as good again as it was in Series 1-2/3.
Fair enough, personal preferences and tastes and all - but has it killed the comedy? Has it ended Peep Show, do you laugh at nothing in it?
Quote: Tim Walker @ February 12 2011, 1:30 AM GMTBut Mark getting the girl has never really been a major arc of the show. Oh sure, in terms of plot it has been very useful, but what Mark really covets is for the world to recognise him as a "normal" human being. Having a wife was just an aspirational part of been accepted as normal. I don't think that NGO is the same type of show.
Very true. So in the same vein, what is it Lee wants? The possibility of a relationship with Lucy has been touched on in the past, but it's certainly not been a particularly major thing until the past 2 or 3 episodes - nowhere near as much as Mark/Sophie was in Peep Show, that's for sure!
Eh. Anyway. Evidently we just see the show and the characters' motivations differently.
Frankly, I think (the character) Lee's over-riding motivation in the show is simply to get the last word - over anyone and everyone. Which is not of itself a bad primary goal for a character in a gag-led sitcom, surely? And whilst we enjoy Lee trying to get one over on everyone when he is a single loser-ish type of bloke, I think audience sympathy would wain should he be trying to "win" over a significant other.
Quote: Tim Walker @ February 12 2011, 1:40 AM GMTFrankly, I think (the character) Lee's over-riding motivation in the show is simply to get the last word - over anyone and everyone. Which is not of itself a bad primary goal for a character in a gag-led sitcom, surely?
Very true, well said.
The last episode reminded me a bit of Red Dwarf's Better Than Life where Rimmer dreams himself the girl he wants but ends up saddled with kids straight away in his own fantasy.
Quote: Tim Walker @ February 12 2011, 1:40 AM GMTFrankly, I think (the character) Lee's over-riding motivation in the show is simply to get the last word - over anyone and everyone. Which is not of itself a bad primary goal for a character in a gag-led sitcom, surely?
And if NGO continues, the best way to do so sans Vine is to get Megan Dodds back and create a new triangle like they had in S1 and S2.
*leaves Tim to search Megan Dodds again on IMDB*
*steps back for Aaron to slate IMDB*
Quote: Steve Sunshine @ February 12 2011, 1:45 AM GMTThe last episode reminded me a bit of Red Dwarf's Better Than Life where Rimmer dreams himself the girl he wants but ends up saddled with kids straight away in his own fantasy.
In the first Red Dwarf novel - where it's eventually revealed that the characters have entered BTL - Rimmer is married to what is accepted as the most beautiful woman in the world, whom he dearly loves... and yet she cheats on him. A lovely insight into the mind of Rimmer that, in a world where he can have anything he wants, he still is only capable of creating a reality where he will be cheated on and emotionally wounded. (It's a cracking book actually...)
Quote: Badge @ February 12 2011, 1:46 AM GMT*leaves Tim to search Megan Dodds again on IMDB*
*steps back for Aaron to slate IMDB*
It would be interesting to have two women vying for him, actually.
