Quote: Aaron @ February 11 2011, 4:06 PM GMThow can you in one breath criticise Richard Hammond for making a flippant and mildly xenophobic remark, making yourself out to be bigger than that, all high-and-mighty and caring and understanding, and then LITERALLY in the very next breath mock a serious car crash that nearly killed him? Really astonishes me.
Yeah, I thought that was stupid.
Completely ruined his own point.
Quote: Tim Walker @ February 11 2011, 12:33 PM GMTComedians are as f**king hypocritical as anyone else, often more-so.
Labour aren't in power so it would be pointless devoting much time to them.
Quote: zooo @ February 11 2011, 4:14 PM GMTYeah, I thought that was stupid. Completely ruined his own point.
Made me laugh.
Me too! But it was still stupid.
Quote: chipolata @ February 11 2011, 4:22 PM GMTLabour aren't in power so it would be pointless devoting much time to them.
Was the same ambivalent attitude afforded to the Conservatives between 1997 and 2010? Was it hell.
(I agree, to an extent. It'd be a bit strange to give much air time to a party that has no power or policy - but to ignore them almost entirely, beyond the odd mention of Ed Miliband's appearance, is dishonest at best.)
Quote: Aaron @ February 11 2011, 4:33 PM GMTWas the same ambivalent attitude afforded to the Conservatives between 1997 and 2010?
I think it was. Especially the early Hague-IDS-Howard years, where they were pretty much dismissed as the wrong people for the job, in much the same way as Milliband is now.
Quote: chipolata @ February 11 2011, 4:40 PM GMTI think it was. Especially the early Hague-IDS-Howard years, where they were pretty much dismissed as the wrong people for the job, in much the same way as Milliband is now.
Personally I think Ed Milliband, his current front bench team and the Labour Party in general, are getting an incredibly easy time off the media. The very same people who, until relatively recently, f**ked up public spending and the economy in general, are asking to be given another chance. They haven't put forward any concrete spending proposals of their own (nor admitted any real mistakes in their underlying economic ideology), but are hoping for people to trust them with another go at government?
Every time Labour are in power they manage to screw-up on the economy. And every time they do so, they add to the number of voters who realise that they simply can never be trusted to hold the purse-strings until they fundamentally budge from the same redistributive agenda that they've been (unsuccessfully) pursuing for the last 100 years or so.
Quote: Tim Walker @ February 11 2011, 4:45 PM GMTPersonally I think Ed Milliband, his current front bench team and the Labour Party in general, are getting an incredibly easy time off the media. The very same people who, until relatively recently, f**ked up public spending and the economy in general, are asking to be given another chance. They haven't put forward any concrete spending proposals of their own (nor admitted any real mistakes in their underlying economic ideology), but are hoping for people to trust them with another go at government?
They're doing everything they can to merge the SEPARATE issues of the fiscal defecit and the banking crisis, and blame the banks entirely. It's enraging and really f**king depressing in equal measure that they seem to be being allowed to get away with it.
Quote: Aaron @ February 11 2011, 4:06 PM GMTTypical Guardian reader, blissfully happy as long as they're not being challenged.
hehe, I don't mind beign challenged, but I prefer blanket agreement 
but so much is just plain misleading (Carr this week referred to a arliamentary vote as something the Government had done), or pathetically thin. It's sledgehammer student politics, failing to understand or take into account the nuances and fine detail and implications of what they're discussing, debating or ridiculing. Not good enough.
I could NOT agree more. I've said it several times already and I'll say it again: it just feels like they're woefully under advised.
but how can you in one breath criticise Richard Hammond for making a flippant and mildly xenophobic remark, making yourself out to be bigger than that, all high-and-mighty and caring and understanding, and then LITERALLY in the very next breath mock a serious car crash that nearly killed him? Really astonishes me.
Now obviously I don't speak for anyone but myself, but for me it's all about status. For example I would not make fun of a group of people who have a history of systematic oppression. I also wouldn't make fun of someone who is disabled, for that same reason- I don't think you should perpetuate negative stereotypes which are in reality very harmful. For most people Richard Hammond is comparitively high status: He's a well off, middle class white male, living in one of the most powerful and influential western Countries with a prime time TV show. Taking a swipe at RH and others at that level is maybe more 'pricking at pomposity', rather than attacking a society or person who has suffered great hardship and oppression.
It's not black and white, but that's my feelings on the difference. You should always aim to swipe upwards.
Quote: Tim Walker @ February 11 2011, 4:45 PM GMTPersonally I think Ed Milliband, his current front bench team and the Labour Party in general, are getting an incredibly easy time off the media. The very same people who, until relatively recently, f**ked up public spending and the economy in general, are asking to be given another chance. They haven't put forward any concrete spending proposals of their own (nor admitted any real mistakes in their underlying economic ideology), but are hoping for people to trust them with another go at government? Every time Labour are in power they manage to screw-up on the economy. And every time they do so, they add to the number of voters who realise that they simply can never be trusted to hold the purse-strings until they fundamentally budge from the same redistributive agenda that they've been (unsuccessfully) pursuing for the last 100 years or so.
Which may well be true, although I think global factors, especially what was going on in America has as much to do with the ecomic crisis as Labour's handling of the economy. But they ain't in power any more and it would be a strange satire show that ignored who was and focussed on a bunch of chancers who are at least 4 years from possible re-election.
Mummy the grown-ups are shouting at each other! Make it stop!
Quote: chipolata @ February 11 2011, 4:55 PM GMTWhich may well be true, although I think global factors, especially what was going on in America has as much to do with the ecomic crisis as Labour's handling of the economy.
Yes, but a significant part of the reason that what happened in the sub-prime mortgage market etc. was able to affect the strength of British banks, was the financial deregulation introduced by both Clinton and Blair (with Brown's enthusiastic support). This, coupled with massive public overspending (based largely on ideological rather than practical principles) is the reason UK plc is economically f**ked. "Global factors" may be a convenient get-out-of-jail card, but it doesn't actually excuse the actions of the Treasury under Labour's command.
Quote: john lucas 101 @ February 11 2011, 4:57 PM GMTMummy the grown-ups are shouting at each other! Make it stop!
I've stopped understanding what they're saying now.
If only I could have made them talk about Jimmy's suit for a bit longer...
Quote: chipolata @ February 11 2011, 4:55 PM GMTWhich may well be true, although I think global factors, especially what was going on in America has as much to do with the ecomic crisis as Labour's handling of the economy.
Well I think anyone who doesn't directly attribute the bad 'packets' of Stateside investment to be the defining moment in the crumble of the economy, is either mad or under read. There are so many different contributing factors, and we were woefully underprepared to deal with the fallout, but the failure of the US lending market is the thing which started the spiral.
For anyone who doesn't know what I'm on about or know the banking crisis backround:
1- Sub prime mortgages- US banks loose billions of dollars.
2- large UK investment from banks in US market.
3- UK banks would not communicate to say which of them had investments in these 'bad packets', so internal lending (which was one of the most common funding methods for commercial banks) stopped.
4- 2 major UK banks contacted BoE for bailouts due to lack of internal lending. This was not reported in the media.
5- Northern Rock contact BoE for bailouts due to lack of internal lending. This was WIDELY reported by the media, and started the first bank run and eventual downfall of NR.
I think that's a fairly accurate (if not highly simplified) run down of the first couple of months of the banking crisis, which started the whole thing snowballing. Labour's terrible spending plans CERTAINLY didn't help anything, and our banking system was far too frail to support itself due to poor decisions.
I worked for Northern Rock, in the Savings call centre on the day it all went to shit. I came into work, which was surrounded by news reporters. The wall boards which told you how many people were in the queue wouldn't work because there were too many people.
Quote: Tim Walker @ February 11 2011, 5:02 PM GMTYes, but a significant part of the reason that what happened in the sub-prime mortgage market etc. was able to affect the strength of British banks, was the financial deregulation introduced by both Clinton and Blair (with Brown's enthusiastic support). This, coupled with massive public overspending (based largely on ideological rather than practical principles) is the reason UK plc is economically f**ked. "Global factors" may be a convenient get-out-of-jail card, but it doesn't actually excuse the actions of the Treasury under Labour's command.
This is also correct. You do realise you're both right, don't you?
Does any comedy make an impact on politics? Isn't it just mainly preaching to the converted anyway? You laugh 'cos you agree but secretly vote for the party you think will give you more money and screw everyone else.
For me the best political joke from the last years was from Frankie, when debating Thatcher's funeral "our only question is whether she has to be dead before we bury her...for six million, buy everyone in Scotland a shovel, and we will deliver her to hell ourselves..." But when it happens thousands will line the streets and weep for her. A joke about an ex-leader, demented now, with no power, comedy is a joke. Not reality?
